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Thread: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

  1. #1
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    For so long, it's felt like the Reds were doing things on the cheap. Marge spent some money on the major-league payroll but everything else was, if you'll pardon the expression, thoroughly minor league. After Marge, the major-league club was done on the cheap too.

    Meanwhile, Moneyball came out, the analysis business boomed and we lapped it up. We were a small market in truth and in vision, and we assumed the only way we could ever succeed was to fully adopt small-market beat-the-odds orthodoxy.

    So then Castellini buys the team, Cincinnati boy but did his owner internship in St. Louis. After a couple of years, he brings in his old St. Louis buddy, Walt Jocketty. Were we about to become Cardinals East? Well, for awhile, nothing much continued to happen. Like a good little small-market team, we were waiting on a wave of homegrown talent to mature.

    Then Jocketty shocked everyone by trading for a veteran like Rolen instead of trading away veterans like Harang and Arroyo.

    Then the Reds shocked everyone by signing Chapman.

    Then they shocked everyone by winning the NL Central.

    Now they're shocking... well, not everyone, but many, by locking up nearly everyone in the core for the next three seasons, at least.

    The Reds are not a rich team, and won't ever be. But it's clear the brain trust is not thinking small-market now. What they are doing, in fact and finally, is this:

    They're running the organization as if they are the St. Louis Cardinals.

    A somewhat less rich version of the Cardinals, mind you, but instead of waving turned-out pockets at us, they're rolling up the sleeves and finding ways to get stuff done.
    Not all who wander are lost

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  3. #2
    Moderator Plus Plus's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    Hear, here.
    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Thus his team was punished

    Long live punishment

  4. #3
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    For so long, it's felt like the Reds were doing things on the cheap. Marge spent some money on the major-league payroll but everything else was, if you'll pardon the expression, thoroughly minor league. After Marge, the major-league club was done on the cheap too.

    Meanwhile, Moneyball came out, the analysis business boomed and we lapped it up. We were a small market in truth and in vision, and we assumed the only way we could ever succeed was to fully adopt small-market beat-the-odds orthodoxy.

    So then Castellini buys the team, Cincinnati boy but did his owner internship in St. Louis. After a couple of years, he brings in his old St. Louis buddy, Walt Jocketty. Were we about to become Cardinals East? Well, for awhile, nothing much continued to happen. Like a good little small-market team, we were waiting on a wave of homegrown talent to mature.

    Then Jocketty shocked everyone by trading for a veteran like Rolen instead of trading away veterans like Harang and Arroyo.

    Then the Reds shocked everyone by signing Chapman.

    Then they shocked everyone by winning the NL Central.

    Now they're shocking... well, not everyone, but many, by locking up nearly everyone in the core for the next three seasons, at least.

    The Reds are not a rich team, and won't ever be. But it's clear the brain trust is not thinking small-market now. What they are doing, in fact and finally, is this:

    They're running the organization as if they are the St. Louis Cardinals.

    A somewhat less rich version of the Cardinals, mind you, but instead of waving turned-out pockets at us, they're rolling up the sleeves and finding ways to get stuff done.
    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42380

    The dreamers and optimists may see this as a faint glimmer of hope that the new owners might have an inkling of what they are going to do to when they are in control. There is a world of difference between the Reds and the Cardinals organizations at this point and time, is it possible that someone from the St. Louis Cardinals could help Reds fix their lingering problem?

    We shouldnít be surprised, itís not as though it hasnít happened numerous times before.

  5. #4
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    Nice post, IslandRed.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  6. #5
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    This team right now reminds me of the 90's Indians. Lots of young talent, with the keys locked up for a few years. Even though the Indians never won the World Series, I would be very happy if the Reds were as successful as the Indians were back then.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  7. #6
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    Let's go win one!
    Last edited by Matt700wlw; 01-20-2011 at 09:37 PM.

  8. #7
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    I was listening to a local, yet popular, radio sports program the other day while driving home from work. They cover a myriad of topics, but being located here in Ohio they focus mainly on the various Ohio teams. The discussion turned to the Reds off-season. Now these two guys love what the Reds are doing and think they are on the right track... BUT..... they felt they pretty much are standing pat, with very little improvement in the off-season - I guess it's because they didn't really go out and sign any really big, brand name player(s) - while their competitors within the division (Cards, Cubs, Brewers) have made some improvements going into 2011.

    Of course the one guy said the Cards are greatly improved with the addition of Berkman, who he thinks is going to have a MONSTER year. Kinda laughed at that. Rumor is that he will "patrol" LF, with Holliday moving to RF, and Jay becoming that 4th (supporting) OFer.

    It's been a few years since Berkman has played the OF, and even then he wasn't that good. Now he's going back out there with two bad wheels? And Holliday has never played RF.

    I think statistically the Cards's defense will suffer even more if they put Ryan Theriot at SS. I've read a couple articles making the comparison to David Eckstein, and that he's simply a clone. And while it's true that DE was the starting SS on two WS teams, he had a better "supporting cast" (team) behind him. I currently don't think that's the case with this Card's team.

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colum...27992bc8b.html

    I personally think they are hoping Berkman and Theriot will rebound more offensively, and give them that added punch that will overcome their lack in defense.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    The Reds are not a rich team, and won't ever be. But it's clear the brain trust is not thinking small-market now. What they are doing, in fact and finally, is this:

    They're running the organization as if they are the St. Louis Cardinals.
    Without all the arrogance.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  10. #9
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    What's really nice is that they are running the franchise like a team who is deadly serious about winning. And doing it in a smart, organized, and wiley way.

    We ain't seen that kind of thinking in these here parts since the early 90's. This team was lost in the woods for quite a while. I think the winning really does start now.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  11. #10
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    What's really nice is that they are running the franchise like a team who is deadly serious about winning. And doing it in a smart, organized, and wiley way.

    We ain't seen that kind of thinking in these here parts since the early 90's. This team was lost in the woods for quite a while. I think the winning really does start now.
    Bob is pretty much as advertised from day one. He said some things and made some moves that were mocked and contested. But the reality is he put his money where his mouth was. He is pretty much doing what us Reds fans have called on ownership to do for a decade plus.

  12. #11
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    Yep, I have to agree with this thread. The FO weathered the storm over the past few years and properly managed the roster and payroll. We are now reaping the rewards.

  13. #12
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Without all the arrogance.
    Success is the first step towards arrogance, the Reds are just learning to walk.

  14. #13
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Of course the one guy said the Cards are greatly improved with the addition of Berkman, who he thinks is going to have a MONSTER year. Kinda laughed at that. Rumor is that he will "patrol" LF, with Holliday moving to RF, and Jay becoming that 4th (supporting) OFer.

    It's been a few years since Berkman has played the OF, and even then he wasn't that good. Now he's going back out there with two bad wheels? And Holliday has never played RF.
    The Cardinals off season to me looked like a typical Cubs off season. Sign/Trade for guys who have name value. It's arguable whether the actual dollar figures being paid to Berkman and Theriot will correctly reflect their value. However it's inarguable in my mind that the "name value" is way above the "actual value" they're providing.

    Because people who aren't particularly close to baseball have heard of Berkman and Theriot, those are good trades. In a name recognition battle, Lance Berkman is more valuable to the Cards than Colby Rasmus. Ryan Theriot(the Chicago Ryan Freel) is more valuable than Brendan Ryan(who ever heard of him.)

    Thus "improving" your team in the eyes of the out of town media reflects, signing guys who the hosts have heard of.
    The sure fire way to not be any good is to sign your RF to a long term contract when he "hasn't really done anything," or sign a young starting pitcher who "hasn't even won 15 games in a season yet."
    That's standing pat and that will get you passed.
    In January.
    The good news is that games don't begin until spring, and they aren't really influenced by the name recognition of the players.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  15. #14
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42380

    The dreamers and optimists may see this as a faint glimmer of hope that the new owners might have an inkling of what they are going to do to when they are in control. There is a world of difference between the Reds and the Cardinals organizations at this point and time, is it possible that someone from the St. Louis Cardinals could help Reds fix their lingering problem?

    We shouldnít be surprised, itís not as though it hasnít happened numerous times before.
    I really enjoyed your post when it was originally made. Thanks for posting it again - it's a thoroughly enjoyable read.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  16. #15
    Boom Goes the Dynamite Screwball's Avatar
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    Re: It feels as if the paradigm shift is nearly complete

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Because people who aren't particularly close to baseball have heard of Berkman and Theriot, those are good trades. In a name recognition battle, Lance Berkman is more valuable to the Cards than Colby Rasmus. Ryan Theriot(the Chicago Ryan Freel) is more valuable than Brendan Ryan(who ever heard of him.)

    Thus "improving" your team in the eyes of the out of town media reflects, signing guys who the hosts have heard of.
    The sure fire way to not be any good is to sign your RF to a long term contract when he "hasn't really done anything," or sign a young starting pitcher who "hasn't even won 15 games in a season yet."
    That's standing pat and that will get you passed.
    In January.
    The good news is that games don't begin until spring, and they aren't really influenced by the name recognition of the players.
    I think this is an excellent point, and dead on accurate. It's also the main reason I don't care much for sport talk radio anymore. Too much fallacious reasoning bandied about as though it were the Word of God frustrated me to no end.

    The Reds way of doing things this offseason (and for the foreseeable future) won't involve anything sexy. Their moves will barely get a mention on Sportscenter, and as a result will be dismissed with a wave of the hand by 90% of the talking heads you'll find on AM radio. But the foundation they're laying and continuing to build upon is going to build a consistent winner for the next several years, IMO. It's an exciting time to be a Reds fan, and after having to put up the slop we just endured for the last 10 years, I have a hard time thinking of a more deserving fan base.


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