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Thread: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

  1. #301
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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    Well the least he could do is state his reasons instead of being vague. But this is his personality...which while I thought his personality matched Troy Aikman's when he first came to the NFL (Along with his talents) His passive agressive nature is really not conducive to leading a team as an NFL QB.

    Redsfanmia.....NO better than Bobby Hebert, Harbaugh? Are you kidding me with this analysis? The 2005 season alone is better than what those 2 did ever along with Delhomme...good grief ....,yeah you don't hate him at all, sure sounds like you don't at all.
    I went to Profootball reference and some of the studs that Carson's career was most like were Jake Delhomme, Mark Rypien, Scott Mitchell and Aaron Brooks.
    Last edited by redsfanmia; 03-14-2011 at 07:06 PM.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

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  3. #302
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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    I went to Profootball reference and some of the studs that Carson's career was most like were Jake Delhomme, Mark Rypien, Scott Mitchell and Aaron Brooks.

    Talk about cherry pickin the worst names on the list to prove your point. I think you forgot to mention some of the other names included in that list. Romo, Eli, Bernie, and Rivers. Not a big Carson fan myself and hopefully this situation gets worked out similiar to Boomers departure when Shula got here.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    Talk about cherry pickin the worst names on the list to prove your point. I think you forgot to mention some of the other names included in that list. Romo, Eli, Bernie, and Rivers. Not a big Carson fan myself and hopefully this situation gets worked out similiar to Boomers departure when Shula got here.
    I also forgot David Garrard and Chad Pennington.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

  5. #304
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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I've said it once and I'll say it again. Contracts are totally different in the NFL. The fact that they are not guarenteed changes everything. Do you feel just as strongly that the Bengals should not have cut Antonio Bryant...or do you prefer they stuck with the 4 yr 28 MM deal? I'm with you, contracts in general should be honored...but signing a non-guarenteed deal is a whole different ballgame.
    He got a huge signing bonus up front in exchange for the non-guaranteed deal. Want a guaranteed deal? Then offer to take less money up front. But NFL players and their agents wont do that. They want the "now" money, knowing that if they renegotiate a deal before the old one is up, it means more "now" money in the form of another signing bonus (oh and another percentage of the signing bonus for the agent). If they get cut, that just means they can negotiate a deal with other teams, and yes, another new signing bonus.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    I'm not sure about that Yachtzee. I'm pretty sure the teams come out on the winning end of that equation.

    Players only renegotiate or extend contracts when they are performing and it's not all of them who do it. Teams get to cut someone who is cut, old, or just not performing up to par. Often times they'll cut a guy only to re-sign him.

    In general it comes to the same thing, because most teams spend at or above the salary cap for a given year. So the players get the same dollar figure. But for an individual players? I don't think that individual players would be against guaranteed contracts.
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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I'm not sure about that Yachtzee. I'm pretty sure the teams come out on the winning end of that equation.

    Players only renegotiate or extend contracts when they are performing and it's not all of them who do it. Teams get to cut someone who is cut, old, or just not performing up to par. Often times they'll cut a guy only to re-sign him.

    In general it comes to the same thing, because most teams spend at or above the salary cap for a given year. So the players get the same dollar figure. But for an individual players? I don't think that individual players would be against guaranteed contracts.
    Actually, most NFL contracts are negotiated with the idea that it's the signing bonus where the real money is and most contracts are written so that both parties know that the final years of the contract aren't expected to be enforced. In fact, many long-term contracts have salary escalators built in to force teams to renegotiate the contract early in order to stay under the salary cap. In a way, it's kind of like the team holding an option contract where they can keep the player on the same contract, but only if they agree to pay the escalated salary rate. Otherwise they either have to redo the contract with a new signing bonus or cut the player to stay under the cap, allowing that player to seek out other teams. Thus, the big money at the end of a long-term contract is often considered "fake money" used solely to make the contract look bigger (as an ego boost to the player and his agent). Everyone knows that the real money in the NFL is in the signing bonus.

    Of course, this really only applies to big name players who can pull in a long-term contract. I'd guess that most players play under 1-3 year deals that expire as a matter of course. In the event they do get cut, as long as they remain on the roster by a certain date, they get paid for the whole year, regardless of when they get cut. I'd say most players maybe lose 1 year off the contract if they get cut and the signing bonus when they signed was probably worth more than the final year of the contract. Guys who get cut and resign with the team at a lower salary usually make up the lost money from the remainder of the contract in the signing bonus for the next one.

    Really, the reason NFL contracts are structured the way they are today is due to years of teams and players' agents working together to get players the money they feel they deserve while trying to fit within the structure of the salary cap. If the players were so fired up about guaranteed contracts, you better believe their agents, especially guys like Drew Rosenhaus and Leigh Steinberg, would have gotten their guys guaranteed contracts. However, agents work to get their clients the best compensation they can, and that typically means more money. If they can get their clients a more lucrative deal by choosing a huge signing bonus up front on a non-guaranteed contract than they would if they went for the guaranteed contract, then they go for the more lucrative deal.

    In a way, I can understand why they do what they do. NFL players generally have shorter careers than other sports. Taking more money up front is not unlike a person who wins the lottery opting for a smaller payout now instead of taking the larger payout spread over many years. If you take the lump-sum payout now, you can invest it and it will be earning money for you now in the form of interest and capital gains that can outpace the inflation rate. On the other hand, if you take the longer payout, you actually lose some value to inflation. Tomorrow's money is less than today's. I'd guess that many NFL players have been advised that it's better to have the money in their account so that they can invest it as they please and earn returns on it rather than having it sit in a long-term contract, allowing the owners to hold onto that money and invest it, and earn the returns themselves.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  8. #307
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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Really, the reason NFL contracts are structured the way they are today is due to years of teams and players' agents working together to get players the money they feel they deserve while trying to fit within the structure of the salary cap. If the players were so fired up about guaranteed contracts, you better believe their agents, especially guys like Drew Rosenhaus and Leigh Steinberg, would have gotten their guys guaranteed contracts.
    To me, the reason nearly all contracts are non-guaranteed is because everyone understands they make no sense in football. The sport's too violent. It's like the risk of handing out a six-year guaranteed contract to a pitcher, multiplied by ten. It's both the reason players want as much money up front as possible, and the reason the owners are okay with doing that instead of guaranteeing multiple years at high salaries.

    I suspect star quarterbacks could get baseball-type contracts if they wanted, but they're happy to get the money up front just as well. Everyone else's professional life expectancy is too short.
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  9. #308
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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    The GM said the Bengals' Marvin Lewis knows Palmer won't play for him again, and he should. He talked to the guy. But there's that matter of what to do next, and this may be a test of Lewis' power and leverage
    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1GrSUjM53
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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    Scrooge has dug in and isn't going to budge. You just have to admire his determination to win.......

    http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...|text|Sports|p
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    I take MB's comments as "don't come here thinking it's a firesale. I want a 1st rd pick for him"

    It makes no sense for the Bengals to trade him for a pick that we're going to use on the next Keiwan Ratliff. By trading him we are making one of our competitors better.

    I am in the camp that we need at least a 1st rd pick for him and if no other team wants to give us that then I'll enjoy watching him rot. That said I do think he will eventually be traded despite MB's posturing

  12. #311
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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I take MB's comments as "don't come here thinking it's a firesale. I want a 1st rd pick for him"

    It makes no sense for the Bengals to trade him for a pick that we're going to use on the next Keiwan Ratliff. By trading him we are making one of our competitors better.

    I am in the camp that we need at least a 1st rd pick for him and if no other team wants to give us that then I'll enjoy watching him rot. That said I do think he will eventually be traded despite MB's posturing
    First time in a long time that you and I agree. Mike Brown couldn't trade him if he wanted to right now anyway. Why discuss it with the public? Eventually if he wants to he can press the NFC West to open up the bidding.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    First time in a long time that you and I agree.
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  14. #313
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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    I think people who think this is posturing on the part of Mike Brown are seriously misjudging him. He's not that smart, and I'm not kidding. I also think you underestimate his determination when it comes to never giving in to demands of any kind. It's been 20 years and counting and he still had no intention of ever hiring a real GM.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  15. #314
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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    The way Mike Brown answers questions make him sound like he barely knows how the game of football is played. I mean, what football executive talks like this? He has to be the the major butt of jokes among other NFL GMs.

    The quarterback position is one that is key
    That's a very big question still to be answered. If it is answered right, our chances will be pretty good. We're going to try to get it answered right and there are different ways to do that
    They will say 'No you pass and I knew you were going to pass.' Well, we throw the ball 60 percent of the time and in certain situations that's a pretty good guess.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

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    Re: ESPN Report - Carson wants to be traded

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I think people who think this is posturing on the part of Mike Brown are seriously misjudging him. He's not that smart, and I'm not kidding. I also think you underestimate his determination when it comes to never giving in to demands of any kind. It's been 20 years and counting and he still had no intention of ever hiring a real GM.
    I think it's entirely possible that he just stumbled upon the right strategy here. Whether he thought it through or not, he might as well give other teams the impression that he's not going to "give" Carson Palmer away.


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