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Thread: NFL CBA Discussion

  1. #31
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    The 30 for 30 documentary on the USFL was really enlightening. They had a lot going for them, and I agree with Chip that they might still be around if they'd stuck to spring.

    Football is so massively popular in this country that I think a spring league could still be successful if done right.
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  3. #32
    All Fired Up Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    The USFL also over-expanded too quickly, which is a common mistake for fledgling leagues. Several teams folded/merged following the second season, leaving no teams in the Midwest, IIRC.

  4. #33
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Here's a question (theorhetical) I'm been thinking about. Not really important to the discussion, but the discussion led to this in my mind.

    Lets say there are 1000 players that compose the NFL today. Lets assume they are the best in the world. Now tomorrow all 1000 of those guys disappear off the face of the earth, and are replaced in the NFL by the next 1000 best guys (guys ranked 1001-2000) in the world. Yeah their names and faces would be unfamiliar, but how much dropoff would we see in the on-field action? They wouldn't be as fast or hit as hard, the quarterbacks wouldn't have the strongest arms,...so how different would the on-field action be to the naked eye?

  5. #34
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    None of those four were anything like the USFL, because none of them went after NFL level talent, which is what a serious attempt at competing with the NFL would entail. Because the talent is what matters.
    Your making my point. My point is that no other venue can pay these players as much as the NFL does. For that reason they eventually have to accept whatever they can get from these owners. These owners have set up this winning system for longer than any of these players have been alive.

  6. #35
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Here's a question (theorhetical) I'm been thinking about. Not really important to the discussion, but the discussion led to this in my mind.

    Lets say there are 1000 players that compose the NFL today. Lets assume they are the best in the world. Now tomorrow all 1000 of those guys disappear off the face of the earth, and are replaced in the NFL by the next 1000 best guys (guys ranked 1001-2000) in the world. Yeah their names and faces would be unfamiliar, but how much dropoff would we see in the on-field action? They wouldn't be as fast or hit as hard, the quarterbacks wouldn't have the strongest arms,...so how different would the on-field action be to the naked eye?
    What you're describing is scab football and we saw that in the 80s during the players' strike. It wasn't pretty. Stadiums would not sellout for that kind of football

  7. #36
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    What you're describing is scab football and we saw that in the 80s during the players' strike. It wasn't pretty. Stadiums would not sellout for that kind of football
    Pretend we don't know it is scab football. How different would the on-field action look, given the players have adequate time to practice together and acclimate themselves to the teams.

    Scab football was slopped together and we knew what it was. That will never look good.

    What if we never knew otherwise?

  8. #37
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    You're the cattle, we're the ranchers.

    Tex Schramm to Gene Upshaw 1987

  9. #38
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Really? You could take care of your family for a long, long time on $900k?

    Except it's not $900k of course, it's more like $450k-$500k after taxes. And it's not really $450k-$500k, because you owe your agent $90k. And you have a lawyer who probably gets 5%. And you're 22 years old and probably dumb and think you're going to play 15 years so it's not like you're living in a one bedroom apartment and eating ramen.

    So now you have like $300k to last you the rest of your life, you probably have friends and family hounding you for money because they think you're rich. And there's a good chance you have head injuries that will plague you for the rest of your life. What a deal.

    Meanwhile an NFL owner's risk is ... people might stop watching football as much and the tv money might lessen? Who think's that's going to happen?
    I said quite some time, not the rest of my life and I said that if these players got some guidance on how to spend their money wisely, they could do well enough to take care of themselves and their family for quite some time. That also assumes they got their college degree or are working toward it and seek work after their playing days are over. With that kind of money, I'd have no debt, a house bought and paid for (at least in my neck of the woods), and enough money to sock away either for a nest egg or to pay for my kids' education and maybe even have enough left over for a rainy day fund. On top of that, if nothing else I could probably get a gig coaching high school football so that when I retire, I could receive both my NFL pension as well as a teacher's pension.

    Trust me, owners do take a lot of risk. I suspect many NFL owners didn't just have a few hundred million in cash laying around to buy a team. They may be worth quite a bit of money, but that doesn't mean they have that laying around in liquid assets. So they probably had to take out loans to finance a significant portion of the purchase price, as well as bring in additional investors. So whatever revenues they take in have to first go to team operations, then you've got taxes, loan payments, and cuts for the minority shareholders. Even if the team makes an operating profit, it doesn't mean the owner gets to take all that profit, throw it in his tub at home and take a money bath. There are a lot of places that money goes, and that is why there are so few professional sports owners who run a franchise as their only business.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  10. #39
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Really? You could take care of your family for a long, long time on $900k?

    Except it's not $900k of course, it's more like $450k-$500k after taxes. And it's not really $450k-$500k, because you owe your agent $90k. And you have a lawyer who probably gets 5%. And you're 22 years old and probably dumb and think you're going to play 15 years so it's not like you're living in a one bedroom apartment and eating ramen.

    So now you have like $300k to last you the rest of your life, you probably have friends and family hounding you for money because they think you're rich. And there's a good chance you have head injuries that will plague you for the rest of your life. What a deal.

    Meanwhile an NFL owner's risk is ... people might stop watching football as much and the tv money might lessen? Who think's that's going to happen?
    So it's the NFL owners' problems that the players they employ have absolutely no financial sense and decide to blow their money?
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  11. #40
    Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Eric_the_Red's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    What I don't understand is how, when the NFL is clearly at it's height in popularity and revenue, the owners can then justify wanting to take $1 billion off the table from the start?

    Also, if Goodell and the owners are so concerned about the players health with concussions and illegal hits, etc., then why do they want to move to an 18 game schedule and haven't increased health care benefits to former players?

  12. #41
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_the_Red View Post
    What I don't understand is how, when the NFL is clearly at it's height in popularity and revenue, the owners can then justify wanting to take $1 billion off the table from the start?

    Also, if Goodell and the owners are so concerned about the players health with concussions and illegal hits, etc., then why do they want to move to an 18 game schedule and haven't increased health care benefits to former players?
    It is all speculation, but I've been led to believe the 18 game schedule is currently just a bargaining chip, to be removed late in the game in return for concessions from the players.

  13. #42
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    So it's the NFL owners' problems that the players they employ have absolutely no financial sense and decide to blow their money?
    That has absolutely nothing to do with players getting their fair share of revenue. I was discussing risk profiles, you're conflating that with discussion of revenue split.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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  14. #43
    J Horsley
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    If there are replacement players like I'm hearing. I'm going down to try out for the Bengals lol.
    When you play this game twenty years, go to bat ten-thousand times, and get three-thousand hits, do you know what that means? You've gone zero for seven-thousand. - Pete Rose for HOF!

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  15. #44
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Really? You could take care of your family for a long, long time on $900k?

    Except it's not $900k of course, it's more like $450k-$500k after taxes. And it's not really $450k-$500k, because you owe your agent $90k. And you have a lawyer who probably gets 5%. And you're 22 years old and probably dumb and think you're going to play 15 years so it's not like you're living in a one bedroom apartment and eating ramen.

    So now you have like $300k to last you the rest of your life, you probably have friends and family hounding you for money because they think you're rich. And there's a good chance you have head injuries that will plague you for the rest of your life. What a deal.

    Meanwhile an NFL owner's risk is ... people might stop watching football as much and the tv money might lessen? Who think's that's going to happen?
    And I make $50,000 a year, taxes take around 33% of my money. I have a mortgage to pay and insurance to pay and all kinds of costs that pop up over the course of a year. If something happens to me or I spend some money I don't have its on me! Its not on my boss or the owners of my company.

    Comments like this create a society of entitlement. I would be thrilled to make $900,000 and pay 33% in taxes because that would mean I take home a lot of money over the course of a year.

  16. #45
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    And I make $50,000 a year, taxes take around 33% of my money. I have a mortgage to pay and insurance to pay and all kinds of costs that pop up over the course of a year. If something happens to me or I spend some money I don't have its on me! Its not on my boss or the owners of my company.

    Comments like this create a society of entitlement. I would be thrilled to make $900,000 and pay 33% in taxes because that would mean I take home a lot of money over the course of a year.
    Completely agree.


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