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Thread: NFL CBA Discussion

  1. #61
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    The NHL--owners and union--was smart after their last disaster. If a new CBA isn't agreed upon by the end of the 2011-2012 season, the old CBA will be grandfathered in until a resolution of the dispute. Thus there will be no league killing work stoppage, one which the NHL probably couldn't recover from this time.
    They could recover, and they'd probably shoot out a better product. What would happen is they would lose in-beweeners like Columbus, Nashville, Phoenix, Atlanta and other sun belt teams.

    That IMO would make the game on the ice better, deeper lines across the league, it would likely reduce injuries as well with the decreased ice time.

    That said, the strike sucked for the real fans and it stopped moronic growth in the game, a game that couldn't handle it.

    Now football is a making money like sunshine in Florida, the owners just want more, the players have smaller windows to make money and the massive amount of role players make the base of their union less likely to want to toss away salary. Add in the fact that of all the sports the team sport of football generates players who have been "coached" all their life, they have been a pawn in many game plans, they as a group are more apt to accept authority and deal with the division of power.

    Plus the NFL ate the unions lunch in 87, they won and have had the upper hand in labor negotiations for years, when you are the winner you try and gain ground, you don't concede.

    It should be interesting to see what happens once summer rolls around, deadlines won't begin to count until training camp, until then it will be a lot of big talk.

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  3. #62
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Hey I'm all for giving someone a fair (and even more than fair) paycheck and overall compensation package but taking 2 Billion off the table out of 9 billion from the start doesn't seem greedy to me, it seems fairly reasonable.
    I really don't think the $2B is a big deal. It's about what's left. If the owners want to take $2B off the top then the players will obviously counter that they want a bigger percentage.

    Here's a real world example:
    It's like you are paid on commission. Some companies pay based on production while others pay based on collection. One's not necessarily better than the other because by nature the collection business would demand a higher percentage commission.

    If I'm the players, I don't get too hung up on how much is taken off the top. I just negotiate a larger percentage to compensate. At the end of the day it all comes down to the cap number regardless of the formula used to reach it.

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    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    New video game coming out this fall: Madden Mediation 2012 starring Roger Goodell.

    Basically, you sit in front of a computer and once a week get asked "Do you wish to give up millions of dollars?" and continually respond "No".

    It's the only pro football that will be on next season.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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  5. #64
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    There is a little good news on the situation. Both sides have agreed to federal mediation. However all this does is get the two sides talking and nothing necessarily has to be agreed on.
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    All I know is if I owned a lemonade stand I'd want to be making a profit and the bigger part of the profit, let alone a multi billion dollar corporation. It is up to me to pay labor according to the service I expect in return. If I want the best damn lemonade salesmen on the planet it is gonna cost me a good chunk but until that guy makes enough to buy his own lemonade stand (and BTW why would I want to pay my employees so well that they become my competition) he shouldn't be making what I make off the profit, not anywhere close. It is my vision, it was my hard work that got it started, I provide all the resources for it to happen and continue happening, why is it ok that someone else gets a similar percentage of the pie as I do? If any person here owned such a business would they feel any different than I?

    Hey I'm all for giving someone a fair (and even more than fair) paycheck and overall compensation package but taking 2 Billion off the table out of 9 billion from the start doesn't seem greedy to me, it seems fairly reasonable.
    I think sometimes people get too hung up on "right" and "wrong"
    Sure you'd want to take the $2 Billion off the top, and the players wish to be paid as much as possible. I don't think either side has a "right" to the money, it's all about what they can negotiate, and both sides understand that negotiations won't matter until there's an actual threat of loss.

    Football isn't a necessary enterprise, so if the players refuse to play for less than they deserve, that's their right. If the owners refuse to pay what the players want, and decide to lock out the players in order to prevent workplace mishaps before an agreement can be reached that's their right.
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    If I'm the players, I don't get too hung up on how much is taken off the top. I just negotiate a larger percentage to compensate. At the end of the day it all comes down to the cap number regardless of the formula used to reach it.
    Yep. Parse the numbers however we want, all the roads lead here:

    The owners want to spend less money on football players and pocket the difference. The players don't want that.
    Not all who wander are lost

  8. #67
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    Yep. Parse the numbers however we want, all the roads lead here:

    The owners want to spend less money on football players and pocket the difference. The players don't want that.
    Every business in the country wants this. They want to cut costs but keep production, quality, distribution, etc. the same. This isn't anything groundbreaking.

  9. #68
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    There is a little good news on the situation. Both sides have agreed to federal mediation. However all this does is get the two sides talking and nothing necessarily has to be agreed on.
    I'm a little surprised the owners agreed to this. My guess is they're doing it for PR. All the mediator will do is attempt to get the sides to come to a compromise something I think the owners have no intention of doing. If they are in the mood for a compromise then I think they could get a deal done w/o involving a mediator

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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    The union has officially decertified as of 5 PM.

    Looks like I need to reserve my copy of Madden Mediation 2011.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  11. #70
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    So this opens the door for players who are released to sue? It also opens the door to scabs/replacement players.

    With no union, how many will cross the line though? More than a few I'd think.

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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    The union has officially decertified as of 5 PM.

    Looks like I need to reserve my copy of Madden Mediation 2011.

    Madden Mediation didn't make it into production. The game designers felt mediation was a hopless endevour since the financial reports released by the company were insufficient, so they decided to go in a new direction with it. It is now Madden Litigation 2011. It won't be as user friendly as Mediation, but hopfully it will get the results the designers are looking for. Word is that the production company is not happy with the new direction and felt the financial reports were not as bad as designers claim.

  13. #72
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    So this opens the door for players who are released to sue? It also opens the door to scabs/replacement players.

    With no union, how many will cross the line though? More than a few I'd think.
    There is a difference between a strike and a lockout. Basically the union has disbanded. Instead of suing under labor laws, the NFL players are now suing the owners under antitrust.

    From the looks of it, the players union left a pretty good deal on the table:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6205936

    It said the offer included splitting the difference in the dispute over how much money owners should be given off the top of the league's revenues. Under the expiring CBA, the owners immediately got about $1 billion before dividing the remainder with the players; the owners originally were asking to roughly double that by getting an additional $1 billion up front.

    Also in the NFL's offer, according to the league:

    • Maintaining the 16 regular-season games and four preseason games for at least two years, with any changes negotiable.

    • Instituting a rookie wage scale through which money saved would be paid to veterans and retired players.

    • Creating new year-round health and safety rules.

    • Establishing a fund for retired players, with $82 million contributed by the owners over the next two years.

    • Financial disclosure of audited league and club profitability information that is not even shared with the NFL clubs. That was proposed by the NFL this week, and rejected by the union, which began insisting in May 2009 for a complete look at the books of all 32 clubs.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  14. #73
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    The union left a very fair deal on the table. Right now, it seems very clear that the NFLPA feels empowered by the recent federal court ruling that smacked down the owners on their TV deal. The union sees an opportunity, via litigation, to really win big.
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  15. #74
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    There is a difference between a strike and a lockout. Basically the union has disbanded. Instead of suing under labor laws, the NFL players are now suing the owners under antitrust.

    From the looks of it, the players union left a pretty good deal on the table:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6205936
    There's not enough detail in that report to know how good the deal was. It says "dividing the remaining revenue with the players"...what percentage? That's the whole ballgame.

  16. #75
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    Re: NFL CBA Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    The union left a very fair deal on the table. Right now, it seems very clear that the NFLPA feels empowered by the recent federal court ruling that smacked down the owners on their TV deal. The union sees an opportunity, via litigation, to really win big.
    I wish the courts would stay out of it but now it's clear this will be settled in a courtroom, not a board room. I'd be very surprised if the players win anything really big. The owners have good lawyers too and their first order of business is to get things out of Mr Doty's courtroom. This does look to be long and drawn out just like I figured it would be


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