Dusty Debate: Harang and the infamous 4 inning outing revisited

[Spitball]

Also, the reason why Harang was available to pitch in relief was that he got blasted out of his previous start a few days earlier after just a few innings, which wasn't the first time that had happened in that young season.

I believe Harang pitched into the sixth inning in the previous start.

... so it's really hard to blame that incident completely for his decline

I agree.

[Spitball]

If it wasn't the 4 innings, it would have been something else.

The relief appearance was two innings, but I agree.

[westofyou]

So, because you expect he wouldn't last as long as other pitchers is reason enough to shrug off Harang falling apart at the age of 30? Umm ok, if you say so.

Am I 'shrugging" it off?

Not really, but I'm also not prone to thinking that that one incident is the only reason for his performance waning.

As for being just 30, a LOT of great pitchers were done by age 30, a lot.

[edabbs44]

Lame on Harang's part. I guess his mechanics rebounded when he had a 6 QS streak later in the year, capped by a CG SHO vs the Cards. And then he remembered the SD game?

We also heard the same thing about Arroyo when he was doing his yo-yo act. Bad streak, Dusty's fault. Good streak, crickets. Wasn't there a point where Dusty ruined his career as well after a high pitch game vs SD?

[edabbs44]

The relief appearance was two innings, but I agree.

I think it was 4. And a very solid 4, in fact, bad mechanics and all.

[Spitball]

I think it was 4. And a very solid 4, in fact, bad mechanics and all.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/play...ranaa01&y=2008

[jojo]

I have no problem with how Dusty pitched Harang that day. Putting a starting pitcher into and extra inning game has been done countless times in baseball history without much fanfare, or ruining of a pitcher.

However, the Reds made a terrible mistake in starting Harang just three days after that extra inning stint. If any damage was done to Harang's arm, it was then, in rushing him back to the rotation. That explains Harang's fatigue more than pitching in extra innings. Iirc, the main reason why he was asked to start just three days later was that Krivsky didn't have space on the roster to call anyone up.

Also, the reason why Harang was available to pitch in relief was that he got blasted out of his previous start a few days earlier after just a few innings, which wasn't the first time that had happened in that young season. Harang wasn't exactly pitching great before that stint, so it's really hard to blame that incident completely for his decline.

I don't remember the details anymore (and I'm too lazy to look them up) but part of why it was a poor decision was how it related to his normal throw days etc..

[edabbs44]

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/play...ranaa01&y=2008

That's wrong

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...&t=p&year=2008

[Spitball]

That's wrong

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...&t=p&year=2008

I see that now.

[Caveat Emperor]

If Harang was too tired to pitch with good mechanics, he should have said so. The Reds could have rested/DL'd him for a bit to recuperate. Then he would had no excuse for his sub-par performance the last few years.

This.

And, really, what stopped him from finding his mechanics again for years after the incident? Seems like a lot of excuse-making behavior to me.

[LoganBuck]

The most infuriating part of the whole thing was that Homer Bailey was scheduled to throw Tuesday or Wednesday that week at Louisville. They were stubborn and didn't call Homer up to make the spot start. Homer was on the 40 man, and could have provided at least some relief to the beleaguered staff. They were playing Pittsburgh of all teams, we weren't talking the 1927 Yankees.

[Tom Servo]

I wouldn't have made the decision Dusty did but I can see why he did. Unfortunately what's done is done and to me there's no point in harping on it. It's worth the discussion but I don't think anyone should suddenly vilify Dusty for it.

[reds44]

Aaron Harang's last three years in Cincinnati:
6-17, 4.78 ERA
6-14, 4.21 ERA
6-7, 5.32 ERA

Even if what he said is true, what was his excuse for being terrible last year?

[CarolinaRedleg]

[westofyou]

Being a BIG guy and a starter is a hard row to hoe, since expansion 53 guys has tall as Harang (6'7") have made at least 10 starts, only 13 reached 1000 IP pitched, in that same time span 341 guys have had 1300 IP and 200 games started (including Harang).


Concerning their height

The majority fall between 6'1 - 6'3

53 of those guys were 6'5 or more.

23 of those guys were 6'6 or more.

9 of those guys were 6'7 or more.

1961-2009

INNINGS PITCHED                 IP       GS     
1    Randy Johnson            4135.1      603   
2    Rick Sutcliffe           2697.2      392   
3    John Candelaria          2525.2      356   
4    Mike Witt                2108.1      299   
5    C.C. Sabathia            1889.1      288   
6    J.R. Richard             1606        221   
7    Dennis Rasmussen         1460.2      235   
8    Mike Smithson            1356.1      204   
9    Aaron Harang             1441.1       234

Was the SD relief appearance the straw that broke the camels back, or was the camel already in trouble based on the type of camel it was?