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Thread: Alonso in Left?

  1. #46
    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    What hasn't been said yet is that this appears to have put an absolute end to any talk of Votto in LF. Joey is now The Man.
    Exactly. Take a look at the 2010 threads at the silly discussions over people wanting to shift Votto to LF over a guy still in AA.

    Amazing what an MVP award does.


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  3. #47
    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    If he's stuck on first base, no amount of hitting would force their hand. His only chance of making the Reds is if he can play somewhere else.
    Seems to me any scouting report pretty much shoots down that notion right away. Reminds me of the Wily Mo/Kearns to play 3B stuff from a few years ago.

    That's the danger in drafting a College 1B - he'd better hit like no tomorrow or he isn't really worth much of anything.

  4. #48
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcclain19 View Post
    Exactly. Take a look at the 2010 threads at the silly discussions over people wanting to shift Votto to LF over a guy still in AA.

    Amazing what an MVP award does.
    I still say move Votto to LF if its what is best for the team. I don't care what hardware he has at home, I care about those pennant like things that say World Series Champsions on them.

  5. #49
    Member reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    Lets be hones there, Alonso's move to left has very little to do with how he plays in the field and a lot to do with how well he hits. If he bashes the ball, all of a sudden you will hear how his defense is better.

    Morale of the story: the Reds will find a place for his bat if his bat is good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
    A little bit off topic, but do you guys think that Jesse Winker profiles more like Pete Rose or is he just the next Hal Morris??

  6. #50
    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I still say move Votto to LF if its what is best for the team. I don't care what hardware he has at home, I care about those pennant like things that say World Series Champsions on them.
    If you are signing Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez, sure.

    But you don't move him for a guy whose been middling thru the minor league system.

    The absolute best scenario left with Alonso, is they plop him in Louisville, he rakes all season, and at the deadline they are able to throw him in a deal with say someone like Volquez for a bigger piece.

  7. #51
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcclain19 View Post
    If you are signing Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez, sure.

    But you don't move him for a guy whose been middling thru the minor league system.

    The absolute best scenario left with Alonso, is they plop him in Louisville, he rakes all season, and at the deadline they are able to throw him in a deal with say someone like Volquez for a bigger piece.
    Have to agree...it's one thing if Alonso is mashing AAA and completely beating down the door. Same with if Votto wasn't the reigning MVP.

    You force this move this spring and I'm sure that moves Joey one or two steps closer to the door come FA time.

  8. #52
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    I still say move Votto to LF if its what is best for the team.
    It wouldn't be best for the team.

    What kind of message do you think it sends to guys on the major league roster that the team is going to move your best player against his wishes in order to take a chance on an unproven player?

    It's the kind of move that might look good to someone with a pencil and piece of paper. But it's also the kind of move that fractures an organization.

  9. #53
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcclain19 View Post
    Amazing what an MVP award does.
    Yep. It was a reasonable discussion to have when Votto was viewed as merely very good, not great. But after last season? There are no minor-league numbers Alonso could realistically put up that would make me say, on that basis, it's worth honking off our best player to make room for him. It's not like Votto is all that and a bag of Doritos in left field either.

    If it's that important to get a bat in left field and Alonso can't play it at a minimally acceptable level, then that's what trades are for.
    Reading comprehension is not just an ability, it's a choice

  10. #54
    Member medford's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    I believe most of the Votto to LF, Alonso to 1b chat, centered around the idea that many thought/believe Votto would be better equiped to play adequate defense in LF, while Alonso was pigeoned into a 1b or DH role.

    Personally, if the team thought Alonso's bat could help them right now, but his defense would offset those pluses in left field, while being league average at 1b, and they thought Votto could handle LF, I'd be in favor of attempting the move. I think its stupid that somebody's feelings would be hurt if they had to move from one non premium defensive position to another non premium defensive position. I realize it doesn't really work that way, for whatever reasons, but if I was Votto, just put my name in the lineup and tell me where to play defense. I have no doubt that Votto would work hard to be as solid a LF as he has become at 1b.

    Any move that is good for the team, while essentially non determental to the individual player, so be gladly accepted by said player. Sadly its not. Of course, I'm not sure that having Alonso in the lineup at any spot is better than the Votto @ 1b, & Gomes/Heisey/Lewis in LF arrangement. Get Alonso 120 games in LF down in Louisville, bring him up in September, then make the determination if you can go w/ him in LF next year, or if a position switch of Votto or a trade of Alonso needs to be made.

  11. #55
    Member kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    It wouldn't be best for the team.

    What kind of message do you think it sends to guys on the major league roster that the team is going to move your best player against his wishes in order to take a chance on an unproven player?

    It's the kind of move that might look good to someone with a pencil and piece of paper. But it's also the kind of move that fractures an organization.
    It all comes down to Votto's opinion on any move (do we know what this is at this point?). Sorry Doug, but you just can't forcibly bump your non-declining MVP off first base because of an unproven, non-elite prospect (Alonso is solid, but elite is a stretch) rookie. Ramifications would be felt for years.

    Now, if Joey was willing to give it a shot with a smile on his face, go for it. Absolutely.

  12. #56
    Member RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    It all comes down to Votto's opinion on any move (do we know what this is at this point?). Sorry Doug, but you just can't forcibly bump your non-declining MVP off first base because of an unproven, non-elite prospect (Alonso is solid, but elite is a stretch) rookie. Ramifications would be felt for years.

    Now, if Joey was willing to give it a shot with a smile on his face, go for it. Absolutely.
    To play devil's advocate:

    - I don't think anybody is suggesting Votto move prior to Alonso forcing the Reds' hand
    - Being an MVP doesn't preclude a team from asking/telling a player he's switching positions. Just ask A-Rod or Robin Yount.
    - Alonso was just rated #73 overall by Baseball America, which is actually a step back for him. Now, sure, he's not Dom Brown or Eric Hosmer. But that suggests he's the 3rd best prospect in an average to good system. Definitions of elite may vary, but it's not like we're talking about a Chris Heisey type here either.

    If Alonso hits .300/.400/.550 in AAA this year while struggling in LF and the Reds approach Votto about a move after the season, I think there's a strong likelihood we'd see Votto in LF with a smile on his face. Particularly if Joey is looking ahead towards FA, being able to play either LF or 1B only increases his value further.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #57
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    To play devil's advocate:

    - I don't think anybody is suggesting Votto move prior to Alonso forcing the Reds' hand
    - Being an MVP doesn't preclude a team from asking/telling a player he's switching positions. Just ask A-Rod or Robin Yount.
    - Alonso was just rated #73 overall by Baseball America, which is actually a step back for him. Now, sure, he's not Dom Brown or Eric Hosmer. But that suggests he's the 3rd best prospect in an average to good system. Definitions of elite may vary, but it's not like we're talking about a Chris Heisey type here either.

    If Alonso hits .300/.400/.550 in AAA this year while struggling in LF and the Reds approach Votto about a move after the season, I think there's a strong likelihood we'd see Votto in LF with a smile on his face. Particularly if Joey is looking ahead towards FA, being able to play either LF or 1B only increases his value further.
    Both Alex Rodriguez and Robin Yount moved from a more difficult position to an easier one. (And in Yount's case, he voluntarily moved to CF at age 29 after spending 11 years as the Brewers' starting SS.)

    I have noticed that there seems to be a trend on RedsZone to ask some of the Reds' best players to move against the current on the defensive spectrum--Votto from 1B to LF, and Phillips from 2B to SS. I don't see too many star players in other organizations making those kinds of position changes.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  14. #58
    Member RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Both Alex Rodriguez and Robin Yount moved from a more difficult position to an easier one. (And in Yount's case, he voluntarily moved to CF at age 29 after spending 11 years as the Brewers' starting SS.)

    I have noticed that there seems to be a trend on RedsZone to ask some of the Reds' best players to move against the current on the defensive spectrum--Votto from 1B to LF, and Phillips from 2B to SS. I don't see too many star players in other organizations making those kinds of position changes.
    Fair points, but I think it cuts both ways. Sure, asking the guy to move up the spectrum may put him as risk of being worse and thus being embarrassed. But it also gives him financial leverage.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  15. #59
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Both Alex Rodriguez and Robin Yount moved from a more difficult position to an easier one. (And in Yount's case, he voluntarily moved to CF at age 29 after spending 11 years as the Brewers' starting SS.)
    SS is more difficult than the hot corner? Not in my book. Catcher is the hardest position to play, 3B is next. You don't want to confuse "difficult" with "important". In the case of Votto, I'd say LF is easier than 1B, as long as you're not slow. No digging balls in the dirt, no screamers from the lefties.

  16. #60
    Member Redsfan320's Avatar
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    Re: Alonso in Left?

    SS is more difficult than the hot corner? Not in my book. Catcher is the hardest position to play, 3B is next. You don't want to confuse "difficult" with "important". In the case of Votto, I'd say LF is easier than 1B, as long as you're not slow. No digging balls in the dirt, no screamers from the lefties.
    Well, I can attest that 1B is a pain (but I love it). However, regarding the SS-3B thing, I'm really not seeing how 3B is the harder one. I've never played either one though, so I'm certainly open to explanation.

    320
    I'd rather listen to Kelch read the phone book than suffer through Thom Brennaman's attempt to make every instance on the field the most important event since the discovery of manned space flight. -westofyou


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