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Thread: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

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    RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    This round should be a lot more interesting, plenty of good matchups.

    Round 2

    Babe Ruth vs. Ken Griffey Jr

    Mickey Mantle vs. Willie Mays

    Frank Robinson vs. Hank Aaron

    Rickey Henderson vs. Roberto Clemente

    Joe DiMaggio vs. Manny Ramirez

    Stan Musial vs. Ted Williams

    Mel Ott vs. Barry Bonds

    Tris Speaker vs. Ty Cobb

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    Round 2

    Babe Ruth vs. Ken Griffey Jr

    Mickey Mantle vs. Willie Mays

    Frank Robinson
    vs. Hank Aaron

    Rickey Henderson
    vs. Roberto Clemente

    Joe DiMaggio
    vs. Manny Ramirez

    Stan Musial vs. Ted Williams

    Mel Ott vs. Barry Bonds

    Tris Speaker vs. Ty Cobb

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    Blowing away bad memories Redsfan320's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    Round 2

    Babe Ruth vs. Ken Griffey Jr
    Tough call, but I take Jr for his defense.

    Mickey Mantle vs. Willie Mays
    Mantle rocked, buy Mays is ,for me, the best player ever.

    Frank Robinson vs. Hank Aaron
    Similar type hitters and fielders, I think Aaron has the edge.

    Rickey Henderson vs. Roberto Clemente
    I'm taking him for his great all-around hitting, and his cannon in the OF.

    Joe DiMaggio vs. Manny Ramirez
    PEDs, plus I think DiMaggio was better anyway.

    Stan Musial vs. Ted Williams
    Tough here, but I think Stan the Man was the better all-around hitter.

    Mel Ott vs. Barry Bonds
    PEDs.

    Tris Speaker vs. Ty Cobb
    I'll be honest, name recognition played a big part here. Plus, Cobb was a hit machine.

    320
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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    ^ Great breakdowns on your picks, that's what I like to see.

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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    I meant to vote on round one but forgot about it. So here goes:

    Round 2

    Babe Ruth vs. Ken Griffey Jr
    Ruth transcended the game. He just has some incredible numbers. If Griffey could have stayed healthy then maybe........

    Mickey Mantle vs. Willie Mays
    Mays may be the best overall player of all time. Mantle's injuries hurt him here for me.
    Frank Robinson vs. Hank Aaron
    Toughest call of the set. I went with Aaron because he is still the HR king in my book.
    Rickey Henderson vs. Roberto Clemente
    Clemente was just better overall in nearly every category. Clemente's defense was impeccable.
    Joe DiMaggio vs. Manny Ramirez
    Joe D was just better overall in running the bases and fielding.

    Stan Musial vs. Ted Williams
    Very tough call here. I gave the edge to Williams just because of his power.
    Mel Ott vs. Barry Bonds
    Before PEDS Bonds would have still been considered one of the best overall players of the last half century. I'll give him an edge over Ott.
    Tris Speaker vs. Ty Cobb

    Cobb by his contemporaries was considered the best player in the game. That's good enough for me to vote for him against Speaker.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    Round 2

    Babe Ruth vs. Ken Griffey Jr
    Babe Ruth is baseball to many people.

    Mickey Mantle vs. Willie Mays
    As others have mentioned, Mays might be the best ever.

    Frank Robinson vs. Hank Aaron
    Even now, Hank is underappreciated.

    Rickey Henderson vs. Roberto Clemente
    Clemente knocked the door down for latin players in a way no one had; that impact can't be underestimate.

    Joe DiMaggio vs. Manny Ramirez
    Joltin' Joe was another player who transcended the game.

    Stan Musial vs. Ted Williams
    Flip a coin.

    Mel Ott vs. Barry Bonds
    Even without "extra help" Bonds would be in the discussion for greatest of all time.

    Tris Speaker vs. Ty Cobb
    I'm a Deadball partisan and think Cobb is woefully undervalued by modern fans. To a man his contemporaries--despite often intense personal distaste for him--called him teh best they ever saw.

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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    Toughest one for me were Rickey vs Roberto and Stan the Man vs Teddy Ballgame.
    Round 2

    Babe Ruth vs. Ken Griffey Jr
    Without Babe Ruth you wouldnt see baseball the way it is today. He was the driving force behind baseball in the early days.

    Mickey Mantle vs. Willie Mays
    Would probably be closer if Mantle could have been healthy.

    Frank Robinson vs. Hank Aaron

    Rickey Henderson vs. Roberto Clemente

    Joe DiMaggio vs. Manny Ramirez
    When Manny is mentioned in a Simon and Garfunkel song I'll reconsider.

    Stan Musial vs. Ted Williams

    Mel Ott vs. Barry Bonds

    Tris Speaker vs. Ty Cobb
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    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    Babe Ruth vs. Ken Griffey Jr
    Ruth's 177 career WAR more than doubles Jr. Ruth also had a career OPS of 1.164. Ridiculous.

    Mickey Mantle vs. Willie Mays
    Toughest one for me. In their prime Mantle may have been a tick better but Mays was able to be really good for longer.

    Frank Robinson vs. Hank Aaron
    Aaron was a better hitter and defender.

    Rickey Henderson vs. Roberto Clemente
    Henderson was superior on offense and was a good defender in his prime. Don't think Clemente D was enough to overcome.

    Joe DiMaggio vs. Manny Ramirez
    A TON better defense.

    Stan Musial vs. Ted Williams
    WAR is even. Went with Williams because his peak was better.

    Mel Ott vs. Barry Bonds
    Easy. Superior defender and hitter.

    Tris Speaker vs. Ty Cobb
    Pretty close seems that Cobb was a little better though.

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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    Round 2

    Babe Ruth vs. Ken Griffey Jr

    Mickey Mantle vs. Willie Mays

    Frank Robinson vs. Hank Aaron

    Rickey Henderson vs. Roberto Clemente

    Joe DiMaggio vs. Manny Ramirez

    Stan Musial vs. Ted Williams

    Mel Ott vs. Barry Bonds

    Tris Speaker vs. Ty Cobb

  11. #10
    Legends Never Die
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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    Babe Ruth vs. Ken Griffey Jr
    You can't not vote for the great Bambino.
    Mickey Mantle vs. Willie Mays
    I just love Willie Mays always have thats why he gets my vote.
    Frank Robinson vs. Hank Aaron
    Again you have to vote for Hammerin Hank Aaron if you are a true baseball fan.
    Rickey Henderson vs. Roberto Clemente
    Because Henderson is one of the best Left Fielders to ever play the game.
    Joe DiMaggio vs. Manny Ramirez
    For his great offensive stats
    Stan Musial vs. Ted Williams
    Just the fact that he his last player to hit over .400 in a season.
    Mel Ott vs. Barry Bonds
    Can't vote for a possible juicer
    Tris Speaker vs. Ty Cobb
    892 stolen bases speaks for itself.
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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    Babe Ruth- Arguably the greatest player of all time

    Willie Mays-Better overall player

    Hank Aaron-Most consistent hitter in the history of the game

    Clemente

    DiMaggio- Ramirez steroid issue takes him out of this category in my
    opinion.

    Musial- This is probably the homer pick. I realize that. However I think ball park also plays a huge factor into this. Fenway was much more of a hitters park than Sportsman's Park. Sportsman's Park almost played like a canyon at times. Musial had 17 records when he retired. Musial also has the highest rating on Bill James Hall of Fame Monitor with 445, ahead of Ty Cobb and Ruth. Musial didn't have the power that Williams had, but I don't think you can ignore Musial's total bases and other gaudy numbers. I also know that Williams hit .400 one year but does that one year (out of many great years) mean he should automatically be ahead of Musial? I just don't know. Musial also had almost 1000 more hits than Williams

    Mel Ott-Again, the steroid issue makes me pick him over Bonds

    Ty Cobb
    Last edited by MikeThierry; 02-25-2011 at 10:31 PM.
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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    Really don't get the Clemente over Rickey picks. My pure speculation is people are turned off by Rickey being Rickey or enamored with BA. Henderson is clearly the superior player, so there must be other factors. Rickey is the all time leader in Runs, SBs and lead off HRs.(Second in BBs all-time and a career OBP of .401) The latter 2 records will most likely stand for as long as any of us are alive.
    There are several players on this list I would rank over Rickey, but Clemente is not one of them.

    Babe Ruth vs. Ken Griffey Jr

    Mickey Mantle vs. Willie Mays

    Frank Robinson vs. Hank Aaron

    Rickey Henderson vs. Roberto Clemente

    Joe DiMaggio vs. Manny Ramirez

    Stan Musial vs. Ted Williams

    Mel Ott vs. Barry Bonds

    Tris Speaker vs. Ty Cobb
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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    Really don't get the Clemente over Rickey picks. My pure speculation is people are turned off by Rickey being Rickey or enamored with BA. Henderson is clearly the superior player, so there must be other factors. Rickey is the all time leader in Runs, SBs and lead off HRs.(Second in BBs all-time and a career OBP of .401) The latter 2 records will most likely stand for as long as any of us are alive.
    There are several players on this list I would rank over Rickey, but Clemente is not one of them.
    For me, part of it is about intangible things rather than actual stats. Clemente played in an era that was dominated by pitchers. To me, that has to account for something. Who was the best pitcher of the 80's? Jack Morris or Ryan? Clemente just faced so many more quality pitchers such as Gibson, Drysdale, and Koufax.

    He had a higher career BA, OPS, SLG, and OPS+ than Henderson.

    I also think that people are focusing too much on offense in this tournament. Clemente was clearly a superior defensive outfielder than Henderson, winning 12 Gold Gloves in his 18 year career.

    I also think the Bill James Hall of Fame Monitor carries some weight to it and is a good judge of who is a hall of famer or not. Clemente has 230 points compared to Henderson 178. The Hall of Fame Monitor doesn't even take into account defense.

    I personally like Henderson and I love his Ricky is Ricky mentality. I loved the fact that he had swagger on the base paths and at the plate. I just feel that if we are going with the overall package, its Clemente.
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    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    I personally think the toughest decision on this list is Musial vs. Williams. Williams did have power numbers but I simply cannot ignore that Musial retired with 17 major league records and 29 national league records.

    Its a shame that these two have to go against each other this round because this easily could have been the match up in the final round.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

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    Re: RZ Greatest OF Tournament - Rd 2

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Musial- This is probably the homer pick. I realize that. However I think ball park also plays a huge factor into this. Fenway was much more of a hitters park than Sportsman's Park. Sportsman's Park almost played like a canyon at times. Musial had 17 records when he retired. Musial also has the highest rating on Bill James Hall of Fame Monitor with 445, ahead of Ty Cobb and Ruth. Musial didn't have the power that Williams had, but I don't think you can ignore Musial's total bases and other gaudy numbers. I also know that Williams hit .400 one year but does that one year (out of many great years) mean he should automatically be ahead of Musial? I just don't know. Musial also had almost 1000 more hits than Williams
    For me this was probably the hardest match up. Ultimately I give the edge to Williams because as you mentioned he hit for more power and his career OPS is 140 points higher than Musial. Also Williams lost three years of his prime, compared to only one for Musial which I think offsets some of Musial's advantage in the counting categories. That said it's a really close match up and I don't think you can go wrong with either player.


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