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Thread: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

  1. #16
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    WWI was never romanticized the way WWII has been. I have read a handful of books on WWII and have been fascinated with it ever since I saw Saving Private Ryan. Granted I don't have a whole lot of knowledge about WWI but it seemed like an antiquated form of warfare. Trench warfare seemed like a battle of attrition akin to that of the Civil War. To me some outside the box thinking or some non-traditional ideas could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.
    Jeff Shaara wrote "To The Last Man" a few years ago which is a good fictional account of WWI.
    From what I have read about military tactics in WWI the generals failed to adequately appreciate how fully automatic weapons had rendered the "charge" by infantry obsolete. One "outside the box" idea that could have restored mobility to the battlefield was the tank, but tanks were not yet fully developed mechanically and tank tactics were in their infancy. Heinz Guderian saw to that later shortcoming two decades later.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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  3. #17
    So Long Uncle Joe BoydsOfSummer's Avatar
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    Code:
    Well how do you do Private William McBride,
    Do you mind if I sit here down by your graveside?
    And rest for awhile beneath the warm summer sun,
    I've been walking all day and now I'm nearly done
    I see by your gravestone you were only nineteen
    When you joined the glorious fallen in 1916;
    Well I hope you died quick and I hope you died clean,
    Or, young Willie McBride, was it slow and obscene?
    
    Refrain:
    Did they beat the drum slowly,
    Did they play the fife lowly?
    Did they sound the Death March
    As they lowered you down?
    Did the band play
    "The Last Post And Chorus?"
    Did the pipes play
    "The Flowers Of The Forest?"
    
    Did you leave 'ere a wife or a sweetheart behind?
    In some faithful heart is your memory enshrined?
    And although you died back in 1916,
    In that faithful heart are you forever nineteen?
    Or are you a stranger without even a name,
    Enclosed forever behind a glass pane,
    In an old photograph, torn, and battered and stained,
    And faded to yellow in a brown leather frame?
    Refrain:
    
    Ah the sun now it shines on these green fields of France,
    The warm summer breeze makes the red poppies dance,
    And look how the sun shines from under the clouds;
    There's no gas, no barbed wire, there're no guns firing now.
    But here in this graveyard is still No Man's Land,
    The countless white crosses in mute witness stand
    To man's blind indifference to his fellow man,
    To a whole generation that was butchered and damned.
    Refrain:
    
    Ah, young Willie McBride, I can't help wonder why,
    Did all those who lay here really know why they died?
    And did they believe when they answered the call,
    Did they really believe that this war would end war?
    For the sorrow, the suffering, the glory, the pain,
    The killing and dying were all done in vain,
    For, young Willie McBride, it all happened again,
    And again and again and again and again.
    Refrain:
    0 Value Over Replacement Poster


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  4. #18
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    Jeff Shaara wrote "To The Last Man" a few years ago which is a good fictional account of WWI.
    .
    Shaara is one of my fav authors. Only problem with TTLM is that there was probably enough material to do two books.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  5. #19
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    WWI was never romanticized the way WWII has been. I have read a handful of books on WWII and have been fascinated with it ever since I saw Saving Private Ryan. Granted I don't have a whole lot of knowledge about WWI but it seemed like an antiquated form of warfare. Trench warfare seemed like a battle of attrition akin to that of the Civil War. To me some outside the box thinking or some non-traditional ideas could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.
    It was a war that ushered in a new era of technology and the end of royal rights... it also was a war that was not awash in as much media technology.

    No film, not many photos, not many war corespondents.

    It just doesn't have the material that WW2 does.

    Nor the polarizing evil leaders to latch onto.

    But be sure it hit Cincinnati hard, many people changed their surnames, all the German street names downtown vanished, riots occurred in Germanic neighborhoods. In 1919 the local police had to protect John McGraw after he screamed a a crowd that he was glad to get out of Cincinnati, the land of the Huns (which was a major slight at the time, akin to calling a town a terrorist stronghold).

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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    It was a war that ushered in a new era of technology and the end of royal rights... it also was a war that was not awash in as much media technology.

    No film, not many photos, not many war corespondents.

    It just doesn't have the material that WW2 does.

    Nor the polarizing evil leaders to latch onto.

    But be sure it hit Cincinnati hard, many people changed their surnames, all the German street names downtown vanished, riots occurred in Germanic neighborhoods. In 1919 the local police had to protect John McGraw after he screamed a a crowd that he was glad to get out of Cincinnati, the land of the Huns (which was a major slight at the time, akin to calling a town a terrorist stronghold).
    Very interesting. Had no idea Cities had their street names changed if some were of Germanic origin. I grew up on "Liebe" Street. Perhaps that's why I've always deplored violence, yet I'm 40% Irish and about 18% German (with about 30% English and 12% of whatever thrown in). My ancestry says "fight", but my heart and soul says "fight to protect those who can't fight for themselves".

    And, yeah...all the "cousins" that ruled the countries of Europe had their last squabble.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 02-28-2011 at 09:37 PM.

  7. #21
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Shaara is one of my fav authors. Only problem with TTLM is that there was probably enough material to do two books.
    I agree. I do not know why he only did one volume on World War I. He did a three volume set on World War II in Europe, with a new book coming out on the war in the Pacific.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  8. #22
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Very interesting. Had no idea Cities had their street names changed if some were of Germanic origin. I grew up on "Liebe" Street. Perhaps that's why I've always deplored violence, yet I'm 40% Irish and about 18% German (with about 30% English and 12% of whatever thrown in). My ancestry says "fight", but my heart and soul says "fight to protect those who can't fight for themselves".

    And, yeah...all the "cousins" that ruled the countries of Europe had their last squabble.
    My great great uncle was pastor of Marien Kirche (Old St. Mary's). When he joined the army to be a chaplain, his father was terribly distraught at the fact that his son was going to fight against Germany. My grandmother told me that prior to WWI it was not uncommon at the time for court proceedings to be held in German if all the parties agreed that it would be easier. As for street names, I know Liberty St. was Kaiser Strasse- here is a little info on it.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  9. #23
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    A remnant of my old hippie/folkie days....

    Loved the Country Joe McDonald album "War War War". Country Joe picked 9 Robert W. Service who was an ambulance driver and correspondent during the Great War and put them to song. Pretty weird for those acid-drenched times but I still put it on the turntable at odd times and people go "who *is* that?".

    My favorite is "The Ballad of Jean Desprez"

    Oh, ye whose hearts are resonant, and ring to War's romance,
    Hear ye the story of a boy, a peasant boy of France,
    A lad uncouth and warped with toil, yet who, when trial came,
    Could feel within his soul upleap and soar the sacred flame;
    Could stand upright, and scorn and smite, as only heroes may:
    Oh, hearken! Let me try to tell the tale of Jean Desprez.

    With fire and sword the Teuton horde was ravaging the land,
    And there was darkness and despair, grim death on every hand;
    Red fields of slaughter sloping down to ruin's black abyss;
    The wolves of war ran evil-fanged, and little did they miss.
    And on they came with fear and flame, to burn and loot and slay,
    Until they reached the red-roofed croft, the home of Jean Desprez.

    "Rout out the village one and all!" the Uhlan Captain said.
    "Behold! Some hand has fired a shot. My trumpeter is dead.
    Now shall they Prussian vengeance know; now shall they rue the day,
    For by this sacred German slain, ten of these dogs shall pay."
    They drove the cowering peasants forth, women and babes and men,
    And from the last, with many a jeer the Captain chose he ten.
    Ten simple peasants, bowed with toil, they stood, they knew not why,
    Against the grey wall of the church, hearing their children cry;
    Hearing their wives and mothers wail, with faces dazed they stood.
    A moment only ... Ready! Fire! They weltered in their blood.

    But there was one who gazed unseen, who heard the frenzied cries,
    Who saw these men in sabots fall before their children's eyes;
    A Zouave wounded in a ditch, and knowing death was nigh,
    He laughed with joy: "Ah! here is where I settle ere I die."
    He clutched his rifle once again, and long he aimed and well ...
    A shot! Beside his victims ten the Uhlan Captain fell.

    They dragged the wounded Zouave out; their rage was like a flame.
    With bayonets they pinned him down, until their Major came.
    A blond, full-blooded man he was, and arrogant of eye;
    He stared to see with shattered skull his favorite Captain lie.
    "Nay do not finish him so quick, this foreign swine," he cried;
    "Go nail him to the big church door: he shall be crucified."

    With bayonets through hands and feet they nailed the Zouave there
    And there was anguish in his eyes, and horror in his stare;
    "Water! A single drop!" he moaned, but how they jeered at him,
    And mocked him with an empty cup, and saw his sight grow dim;
    And as in agony of death with blood his lips were wet,
    The Prussian Major gaily laughed, and lit a cigarette.

    But mid the white-faced villagers who cowered in horror by,
    Was one who saw the woeful sight, who heard the woeful cry:
    "Water! One little drop, I beg! For love of Christ who died ..."
    It was the little Jean Desprez who turned and stole aside;
    It was the little barefoot boy who came with cup abrim
    And walked up to the dying man, and gave the drink to him.

    A roar of rage! They seize the boy; they tear him fast away.
    The Prussian Major swings around; no longer is he gay.
    His teeth are wolfishly agleam; his face all dark with spite:
    "Go shoot the brat," he snarls, "that dare defy our Prussian might.
    Yet stay! I have another thought. I'll kindly be, and spare;
    Quick! give the lad a rifle charged, and set him squarely there,
    And bid him shoot, and shoot to kill. Haste! make him understand
    The dying dog he fain would save shall perish by his hand.
    And all his kindred they shall see, and all shall curse his name
    Who bought his life at such a cost, the price of death and shame."

    They brought the boy, wild-eyed with fear; they made him understand;
    They stood him by the dying man, a rifle in his hand.
    "Make haste!" said they, "the time is short, and you must kill or die."
    The Major puffed his cigarette, amusement in his eye.
    And then the dying Zouave heard, and raised his weary head:
    "Shoot, son, 'twill be the best for both; shoot swift and straight," he said.
    "Fire first and last, and do not flinch; for lost of hope am I;
    And I will murmur: Vive La France! and bless you ere I die."

    Half-blind with blows the boy stood there, he seemed to swoon and sway;
    Then in that moment woke the soul of little Jean Desprez.
    He saw the woods go sheening down, the larks were singing clear;
    And oh! the scents and sounds of spring, how sweet they were! how dear!
    He felt the scent of new mown hay, a soft breeze fanned his brow;
    O God! the paths of peace and toil! How precious were they now.

    The summer days and summer ways, how bright with hope and bliss!
    The autumn such a dream of gold ... and all must stand in this:
    This shining rifle in his hand, that shambles all around;
    The Zouave there with a dying glare; the blood upon the ground;
    The brutal faces round him ringed, the evil eyes aflame;
    That Prussian bully standing by, as if he watched a game.
    "Make haste and shoot," the Major sneered; "a minute more I give;
    A minute more to kill your friend, if you yourself would live."

    They only saw a bare-foot boy, with blanched and twitching face;
    They did not see within his eyes the glory of his race;
    The glory of a million men who for fair France have died,
    The splendor of self-sacrifice that will not be denied.
    Yet ... he was but a peasant lad, and oh! but life was sweet ...
    "Your minute's nearly gone, my lad," he heard a voice repeat.
    "Shoot! Shoot!" the dying Zouave moaned; "Shoot! Shoot!" the soldiers said.
    Then Jean Desprez reached out and shot ... the Prussian Major dead!

    Pay attention to the open sky

  10. #24
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    double post
    Last edited by Roy Tucker; 03-01-2011 at 08:51 AM.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  11. #25
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    My great great uncle was pastor of Marien Kirche (Old St. Mary's). When he joined the army to be a chaplain, his father was terribly distraught at the fact that his son was going to fight against Germany. My grandmother told me that prior to WWI it was not uncommon at the time for court proceedings to be held in German if all the parties agreed that it would be easier. As for street names, I know Liberty St. was Kaiser Strasse- here is a little info on it.
    http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=15512.0.


    English Street, Berlin Street was changed to Woodrow Street, and Bremen Street was re-baptized Republic Street
    These ghosts from Cincinnati's past are preserved and visible to those who know where to find them. At the northeast corner of Republic and 15th streets in Over-the-Rhine, the old "Bremen St." name is carved in the faade of a building. To my knowledge, this is the only place in the city where the original German name of one of the renamed streets has survived until today.

  12. #26
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    I agree. I do not know why he only did one volume on World War I. He did a three volume set on World War II in Europe, with a new book coming out on the war in the Pacific.
    For those who are interested, Shaara will be speaking and doing a book signing at the Main Cincinnati library on April 2 at 2 P.M.

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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Nor the polarizing evil leaders to latch onto.

    I think that's the big thing. WWI had no Nazis, no fascists, no holocaust, no commies.

    And despite the name, WWI was really just a European war. WWII was fought in Africa, the Pacific, China, Southeast Asia, even Alaska.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_Campaign
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  14. #28
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    I think that's the big thing. WWI had no Nazis, no fascists, no holocaust, no commies.

    And despite the name, WWI was really just a European war. WWII was fought in Africa, the Pacific, China, Southeast Asia, even Alaska.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleutian_Islands_Campaign
    World War I was fought in Africa--didn't you see "The African Queen"?
    Actually you of course are correct. While there were some minor skirmishes elsewhere, all of the significant action was in Europe or the Atlantic and the main players were European until 1917.
    There not only were no evil leaders as terribly memorable as Hitler, or evil allied leaders as terribly memorable as Stalin, the "good leaders" were not larger than life either. Woodrow Wilson didn't have the charisma of FDR, Lloyd George was no Winston Churchill, and American military leaders were not as compelling as were Ike, Patton, MacArthur, et al.
    The stakes were not perceived to be as big either. Had the Kaiser won, the German Empire would have been a little bigger but that was about it, unlike WWII wherein the fate of most of the world was truly at stake.
    Finally we just have a much better film record of WWII than we do of WWI.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  15. #29
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    World War I was fought in Africa--didn't you see "The African Queen"?
    Actually you of course are correct. While there were some minor skirmishes elsewhere, all of the significant action was in Europe or the Atlantic and the main players were European until 1917.
    There not only were no evil leaders as terribly memorable as Hitler, or evil allied leaders as terribly memorable as Stalin, the "good leaders" were not larger than life either. Woodrow Wilson didn't have the charisma of FDR, Lloyd George was no Winston Churchill, and American military leaders were not as compelling as were Ike, Patton, MacArthur, et al.
    The stakes were not perceived to be as big either. Had the Kaiser won, the German Empire would have been a little bigger but that was about it, unlike WWII wherein the fate of most of the world was truly at stake.
    Finally we just have a much better film record of WWII than we do of WWI.
    I think it's far more difficult to paint the sides as "good" vs. "evil" in World War I. It was more a war about greed, mistrust, and entangling alliances than it was a war of conflicting ideologies that World War II and the Cold War after it were. The traditional colonial empires of Britain, France and Russia were concerned about the rapidly industrializing German Empire, while the Germans and Austro-Hungarians weren't to keen on Russia expanding its influence over the Balkans as the Ottoman Empire receded. I think it's the classic example of the "Rich Man's War."

    Having read up on and studied much on the history of Austria, I find it interesting to note that Archduke Franz Ferdinand, whose assassination kicked the whole thing off, had quite liberal views when it came to the rights of minorities in the Austro-Hungarian empire. Some say it's precisely because he held liberal ideas toward the rights of Czechs, Slovenes, Croats and Serbs within the empire that he was assassinated (Serbs and Pan-slavic sympathizers in Serbia didn't like the idea of a Austrian emperor giving more rights to Slavs in Austria-Hungary as it would lessen the likelihood they would revolt and seek to join Serbia). It's quite possible, had he survived and succeeded Kaiser Franz Joseph, that the Austro-Hungarian empire might have survived as a multi-ethnic federal state or devolved into its constituent national states on its own.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  16. #30
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Frank Buckles, R.I.P.

    And despite the name, WWI was really just a European war.
    TE Lawrence says hello.
    The Middle East was a pretty important part of WWI and although there were not really big battles there, a lot was going on in terms of strategic alliances and the longer term disposition of the region. The Arab Revolt occurred during the same time and the British were doing everything they could to support it as a means to weaken the Ottoman Turks. On top of that, the Zionist movement was gaining influence with the British and managed to convince them to pen the Balfour Declaration.
    And then, of course there is Gallipoli, where over 100,000 people were killed.
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