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Thread: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

  1. #16
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    And Travis Wood is anything but a #4 or #5 starter. What a joke. What do you want to bet that guy has never actually watched Wood pitch and is basing his opinion just off stats? Wood is going to be a really good one. Maybe not an ace, but definitely a #3 at worst, #2 at best.

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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    As perplexed as I was when Dusty declared "no platoon!" I was just as delighted to see this written.

    This isn't the fan base clamoring for a platoon for giggles. This is a respected sports writer looking at the numbers saying why there should be a platoon on this squad *at this stage.*

    Dusty takes his share of lumps for undeserving reasons, but his dismissal of the RH/LH splits is a legit reason to give the man some grief.

    I simply can't believe Walt signed Lewis, with his specific skills, as a strict bench player. One hopes Walt has some say in how the players he gets are used.
    I have a love-hate relationship with Albert Pujols. Mostly hate.

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    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Ryan Ludwick started to emerge at age 28. His first big year in full-time duty was at age 29. Hermida just turned 27. Given the upside, you can't close the book on him.
    Hermida actually started to put it together, but then regressed. Not a good sign. However, if he does get straightened out, a la Ludwick, then more power to him. Just, I wouldn't rely on that happening in any sort of way right now.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  5. #19
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    I can't believe anyone actually thinks there won't be a platoon in LF. Dusty was simply building up Gomes' confidence and giving him credit for having a solid (yet inconsistent) 2010 season. Gomes was really one of the leaders of the team and Dusty doesn't want to disrespect him by saying there will be a platoon. He wants to make Lewis earn it first.
    Yep. Even if Dusty's leaning toward a platoon or thinks there will be one before long, he's not going to declare it until or unless he's ready to say who the other half of it is going to be. He probably doesn't have that comfort level in Fred Lewis yet, and if Lewis isn't a given at this point, certainly everyone else in the discussion isn't.
    Not all who wander are lost

  6. #20
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    And Travis Wood is anything but a #4 or #5 starter. What a joke. What do you want to bet that guy has never actually watched Wood pitch and is basing his opinion just off stats? Wood is going to be a really good one. Maybe not an ace, but definitely a #3 at worst, #2 at best.
    I would like to bet every penny I have. Goldstein is a prospects guy. And his #1-5 stuff is based on how their stuff rates out scouting wise, not so much how it plays out. Aaron Harang was never a #1 or even a #2 type of pitcher when it came to what a scout sees from a #1/2, but when it came to numbers, he certainly was. Scouting wise, Travis Wood at best profiles as a #3 because he doesn't really have a plus pitch to his name. He has several good ones though. The entire idea behind scout speak in terms of what a pitcher profiles as is silly though, because if it were true, there are only about 5 #1's and 10 #2's in all of baseball. When baseball has 30 teams and 5 man rotations, there are going to be about a lot more than that. What you ideally want from a #1 isn't a reality because there just aren't that many guys out there who fit that profile in terms of scouting. When scout types say a player is a #X pitcher, it generally means a whole lot different than where they would actually profile in almost every rotation in baseball. A #1 pitcher is someone like Felix Hernandez, Tim Lincecum or Roy Halladay. Problem is, there aren't close to 30 guys who can pitch like that in the majors, but 30 are 30 teams who need #1 guys. It is just another one of those things where scouts use a different language so to speak than what we tend to think about.

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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    And Travis Wood is anything but a #4 or #5 starter. What a joke. What do you want to bet that guy has never actually watched Wood pitch and is basing his opinion just off stats? Wood is going to be a really good one. Maybe not an ace, but definitely a #3 at worst, #2 at best.
    You really can't expect these prospect guys to have watched every player, which is why they generally base their evaluations on velocity, build and stats. This is also why their ranking of young pitchers isn't as accurate as their ranking of young hitters, since poise and smarts, which can only be learned about through observation, are probably a bigger deciding factor in a pitchers success, than a hitters.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  8. #22
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by I(heart)Freel View Post
    As perplexed as I was when Dusty declared "no platoon!" I was just as delighted to see this written.

    This isn't the fan base clamoring for a platoon for giggles. This is a respected sports writer looking at the numbers saying why there should be a platoon on this squad *at this stage.*

    Dusty takes his share of lumps for undeserving reasons, but his dismissal of the RH/LH splits is a legit reason to give the man some grief.

    I simply can't believe Walt signed Lewis, with his specific skills, as a strict bench player. One hopes Walt has some say in how the players he gets are used.
    Erardi is a noted saber type columnist. His work generally is interesting and thought provoking. But that the same time I believe his biases can be seen in his work. He is taking Dusty's statement at absolute face value and buying into it 100%. He fails to take anything into consideration with this comment other than its face value.

    I was somewhat surprised when I saw the comment but it was a first week of spring training comment. It was a comment that probably was more of a confidence booster to Gomes than anything else. Gomes was a guy who had a rough second half but was a huge first half. He was also a guy manning a position that many people were calling for an upgrade. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I think that this was Dusty giving Gomes a confidence boost.

  9. #23
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Erardi is a noted saber type columnist. His work generally is interesting and thought provoking. But that the same time I believe his biases can be seen in his work. He is taking Dusty's statement at absolute face value and buying into it 100%. He fails to take anything into consideration with this comment other than its face value.

    I was somewhat surprised when I saw the comment but it was a first week of spring training comment. It was a comment that probably was more of a confidence booster to Gomes than anything else. Gomes was a guy who had a rough second half but was a huge first half. He was also a guy manning a position that many people were calling for an upgrade. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I think that this was Dusty giving Gomes a confidence boost.
    I don't know about a huge first half. From the start of the season until May 3rd he sucked. From May 4th Until May 28th he set the world on fire with a 1.200+ OPS. From May 29th until the end of the season he put up a .698 OPS.

    He basically had a stretch of 20 games where he was amazing and then was below average the rest of the season.

  10. #24
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    I don't know about a huge first half. From the start of the season until May 3rd he sucked. From May 4th Until May 28th he set the world on fire with a 1.200+ OPS. From May 29th until the end of the season he put up a .698 OPS.

    He basically had a stretch of 20 games where he was amazing and then was below average the rest of the season.
    FYI...from June 1 to June 18 his OPS was roughly .880. If you are going to breakdown the numbers, at least be fair. He was also well above .800 from July 1 to July 19.

  11. #25
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    FYI...from June 1 to June 18 his OPS was roughly .880. If you are going to breakdown the numbers, at least be fair. He was also well above .800 from July 1 to July 19.
    I guess I didn't look close enough. I just saw that stretch in May where he put up those stupid numbers and then I just looked at what he did on the season as a whole outside of those 20 games.

  12. #26
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    No platoon, bad idea of course and I tend to agree with Erardi Dusty might eventually change his mind just hope he hasn't buried us by then. I think Heisey is headed to AAA, from what I saw he hasn't addressed his issues at the plate yet (getting his hands into hitting position a tad quicker) and I think his production will reflect that in the end, so that leaves the door open for others like Sappelt, Lewis & Hermida. I think Sappelt and Lewis may have the edge.

    Disagree with Goldstein on Wood also he's at worst a #3 pitcher. He can dial his fastball up to 94, he has always had the rep for having a plus change up and throws a good cutter also, he doesn't throw his breaking pitch much but he does have one. But what he does well is hit his spots very, very well which is just as important as having plus stuff. His stuff is as good or better than his buddy Cliff Lee who is largely considered an Ace. I believe both Wood and Leake are #3's, with Wood having a chance to be a #2.

    I do agree with some of what Goldstein said though like Chapman, Cozart, Bailey, Phillips, Janish etc. But I don't get how he doesn't see the depth for the pen, it's there.
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  13. #27
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    (wrong thread)
    Last edited by Blitz Dorsey; 03-03-2011 at 05:12 PM.

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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    If Baker insists on playing Gomes most of the time for a couple months, no matter how well he does, I hope it does not also mean he's going to try to force Stubbs into the leadoff spot (because Lewis will be on the bench). Stubbs has said he prefers to hit lower in the lineup, and the numbers from last year show his performance has reflected that.

    I'm usually not someone to harp on lineups, but I will be chirping if Stubbs is in that #1 spot week after week and not hitting well, come the regular season.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    If Baker insists on playing Gomes most of the time for a couple months, no matter how well he does, I hope it does not also mean he's going to try to force Stubbs into the leadoff spot (because Lewis will be on the bench). Stubbs has said he prefers to hit lower in the lineup, and the numbers from last year show his performance has reflected that.

    I'm usually not someone to harp on lineups, but I will be chirping if Stubbs is in that #1 spot week after week and not hitting well, come the regular season.
    Really his problem with hitting in that spot seems to be he tries to adapt himself to the spot in the order. He tries to take a bunch of pitches (including good ones for him to swing on) which for him isn't necessarily a good thing, he needs to be able to swing at will when the pitch is there. If he hits there and takes the same approach as he does in the #6 or 7 hole he'll be fine, just would be nice to have a guy who can take some pitches and work the pitcher a bit in the #2 hole (which we don't really have either).
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  16. #30
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Erardi: No Platoon In LF Bad Move For Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    If Baker insists on playing Gomes most of the time for a couple months, no matter how well he does, I hope it does not also mean he's going to try to force Stubbs into the leadoff spot (because Lewis will be on the bench). Stubbs has said he prefers to hit lower in the lineup, and the numbers from last year show his performance has reflected that.

    I'm usually not someone to harp on lineups, but I will be chirping if Stubbs is in that #1 spot week after week and not hitting well, come the regular season.
    This is the main reason I want the platoon. There isn't really a lineup that makes sense vs RHP that has Gomes in it. Here's what I'm guessing it will be:

    Stubbs
    Phillips
    Votto
    Rolen
    Bruce
    Gomes
    Hern/Han
    Janish
    P

    I would hate this lineup, and think it would be silly to hit Stubbs at the leadoff spot.

    Doesn't this look a ton better?

    Lewis
    Phillips
    Votto
    Rolen
    Bruce
    Stubbs
    Hern/Han
    Janish
    Pitcher

    or even this? (I'm assuming Dusty is going to bat ER 2nd when he plays. Not what I would do, but I'm just assuming).

    Lewis
    Renteria
    Votto
    Rolen
    Bruce
    Phillips
    Stubbs
    Hern/Han
    Pitcher


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