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Thread: BENder UPDATE v2.0!

  1. #46
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bill
    Giving good at-bats just like Easler promised. Imagine the Reds lineup with BB at 1B and with the money saved from Casey's salary, Todd Walker staying at 2B and leading off. It seems Bowden got taken by two of the games newest and youngest GMs. In fact, was that not little Theo's first deal?
    exactly why i feel Bowden has lost his edge.
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  3. #47
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    BB with 2 HR, a double and 5 rbi tonight. He now has 8 hr in 168 AB, or roughly half the ABs that Casey has taken to hit 9 hr. Consider that BB is in a lineup with little protection.

  4. #48
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    His OPS is now up to .836 vs. 771 for Casey.

    And for about $5.5MM less. This is why Jim Bowden has no business running a small to mid-market team. Getting rid of a guy like Broussard for a guy like Branyan while signing Casey to a LTC for big bucks is the exact opposite in every way of how a small market team can become successful. As a matter of fact, if there was a manual for how to run a successful small market MLB franchise, these moves would highlight the section of what not to do.

    Hard to understand how Bowden ever thought this was a good idea. Branyan is another example of a player he became fixated on and couldn't resist tempatation when he had the opportunity to get him.
    Last edited by MWM; 07-11-2003 at 11:45 PM.
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  5. #49
    "So Fla Red"
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    Funny how this thread disappeared since Bender went from a near .900 OPS straight to a sub-.750 OPS a couple days ago. Not to mention an overall sub .200 BA with RISP

    June totals (92 AB): .307 OBP and .655 OPS

    Two hot games and the OPS jumps 80 pts and the thread is back baby!

    Now where is that Konerko thread?? :evilgrin:

  6. #50
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    You are correct that the slugging component of OPS can make a player's OPS rise very quickly. But Broussard is still making good progress. He's not out of the woods yet. But if he can get that on base percentage over .360 in his first full season, and his slugging up over .500, that is a heck of a lot of production from a minimum-salary player.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  7. #51
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    Exactly. Essentially he is a rookie and has to make adjustments. Casey has had 2-3 slow seasons so I am not worried about Broussard's slow June. Keep in mind that their lineup lost Burks. BB is often the lone longball threat.

  8. #52
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    Originally posted by cincinnati chili
    You are correct that the slugging component of OPS can make a player's OPS rise very quickly. But Broussard is still making good progress. He's not out of the woods yet. But if he can get that on base percentage over .360 in his first full season, and his slugging up over .500, that is a heck of a lot of production from a minimum-salary player.
    Agree.

    Just find it humorous that the Bender thread only rears its head whenever he has a good night. Which hasn't happened since mid-June...

    Bender's a nice player, but won't be more than an average to slightly above average producer for a few years. A bargain for 2-3 seasons without a doubt (if he sticks in the bigs) Just think of the meltdown that would occur here on a nightly basis if we ever did trade away a superstar type phenom!

    The Trevor Hoffman update thread would have had 32,000 posts and 16 million views by now if Redszone was around in 1995.
    Last edited by oregonred; 07-12-2003 at 02:44 AM.

  9. #53
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Why are you people doing this to yourselves? It's not like we are going to get Broussard back!

    I thought it was a stupid trade also. Knowing alot of Indian fans, they were ecstatic to "dump" Branyan and get Broussard.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  10. #54
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    Why are "we" doing this to ourselves? I don't know about others but I follow Ben 'cause I saw him in his first season out of college and liked him as a player. He's also a nice young man.

    Since I root for the Indians in the AL, in a sense, I've still got Ben on my team. It just irks me that all the Reds got for him was Russell Branyon who will be long gone and forgotten soon. (Possibly as soon as the end of this season.)

    By OR: Bender's a nice player, but won't be more than an average to slightly above average producer....
    That may turn out to be true but, as numerous threads on this board have pointed out, if Sean Casey were an average producer (for a first baseman) it would be a step up.

    One nice note about Ben's game last night: his Grandfather was in the stands to see Ben play for the first time as a pro. Nice welcome for Grandpa, Ben!

    Rem

  11. #55
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    I once suggested that, as I hadn't seen the "bender update" in awhile, that he must be slumping. Well, a few posters jumped on me for suggesting such a thing, nitwithstanding that he had indeed been slumping.

    The Bender update was started by thoses intent on proving it was a bad trade. Last year, when Branyan was hitting good, and Ben was in the minors (or hitting poorly in the majors), it was nowhere to be found. This year, whenever Ben has a good game it gets ressurected.

    But that's their proogitive. We are all guilty of using the facts that state our case. THe Bender people are no different.

  12. #56
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    Originally posted by MWM
    His OPS is now up to .836 vs. 771 for Casey.

    And for about $5.5MM less. This is why Jim Bowden has no business running a small to mid-market team. Getting rid of a guy like Broussard for a guy like Branyan while signing Casey to a LTC for big bucks is the exact opposite in every way of how a small market team can become successful. As a matter of fact, if there was a manual for how to run a successful small market MLB franchise, these moves would highlight the section of what not to do.

    Hard to understand how Bowden ever thought this was a good idea. Branyan is another example of a player he became fixated on and couldn't resist tempatation when he had the opportunity to get him.
    Are you sure that Allen/Linder would let Bowden trade Casey??? They seem to want to keep the fan favorites around so they very well could have told Jimbo that he cannot trade Casey.

    Bowden also said that he traded for Branyan to help out last years team (when it was in 1st or 2nd place) not a trade for the long term. There is little doubt that doubt that Branyan helped last years team more than BB could have.

  13. #57
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Of course the people who were against the trade and like Broussard only bring it up when hiw numbers are good. Duh.

    It's up to the people who supported the trade and think Broussard isn't very good to bring it up when he's struggling.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  14. #58
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Originally posted by 4256 Hits
    Are you sure that Allen/Linder would let Bowden trade Casey??? They seem to want to keep the fan favorites around so they very well could have told Jimbo that he cannot trade Casey.

    Bowden also said that he traded for Branyan to help out last years team (when it was in 1st or 2nd place) not a trade for the long term. There is little doubt that doubt that Branyan helped last years team more than BB could have.
    Your first point is a really good one. I've never been that sympathetic to Bowden when people point out he 'only' has a $50 million payroll. But if he's being handcuffed in the players he can/can't trade, then I've probably been way too hard on him.

    Your second point I disagree with. Larry Anderson helped the Red Sox long ago, but it didn't mean it was right to trade Bagwell for him. I'm not saying Broussard is THAT good. But what you seem to be advocating is financing a home with a 158% interest rate.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  15. #59
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    How's come someone in the stats department does not do a relevent daily update on Adam Dunn a Reds player my favorite player, like they do Ben a Cleveland player on the Reds board?

  16. #60
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    I think the Broussard trade was one of the stupidest deals this FO has made in the last couple of years.

    I have no idea what Bowden was thinking, unless he felt that Broussard was a 1Bman who would see very little playing time behind Casey & Dunn.

    Ben's wrist injury set him back a little while in the minors, but I really like this kid! But it was this FO's ineptness that again came through for us!
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations


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