R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

[Sea Ray]

Just to refresh our memories, what was the plan to pay off the $2.3B it was going to cost for that light rail design?

[Caveat Emperor]

Sales tax bump (I think 1%), State kick-in back when Columbus had cash, and a federal transportation grant. Plus, I think the lines running out of county would only have been extended if KY and Warren/Butler/Clermont would have contributed.

It all means the project would likely have suffered many of the same ills now befalling the Stadium (shortage of sales tax receipts). But, unlike the stadium, the rail project could at least expand at a reduced pace to keep costs in-line with tax revenues as opposed to going deeply into the red all at once.

[bucksfan2]

It actually makes me laugh a little when I see it, because I have to wonder what drugs they were on if they thought Cincinnati would actually support a transit plan that radical.

Traffic in Cincinnati is a joke compared to most places, but I also have to wonder how many people would opt for rail transport into downtown if it meant an end to paying $3.50 a gallon to drive or paying to park when you got there.

I bring this particular plan up because it seems, in hindsight, like it would have dovetailed nicely with a lot of other stuff going on over the past 5 years or so -- the re-emergence of OTR, the Banks finally offering an entertainment destination, the upcoming Casino opening in early-2013, the planned expansion at Rookwood Commons in Norwood, the explosion of growth in West Cheater & Mason, etc.

I like big vision stuff. Sometimes the details don't work out when you crunch the numbers, but it shouldn't stop people from at least considering possibilities.

I like theory of mass transit. It sure would be nice to have a 5-10 minute walk then hop on a light rail and end up at work. I am mixed on the streetcar. Part of me says "great Cincinnati has mass transit" but the other part of me says "why build a poorly designed unfinished product that only services a small amount of people."

There are a couple of holes to your theory. First of all the planned expansion at Rookwood was a cool idea 10 years ago before the city went bankrupt and got into a long legal battle that was just resolved recently. Do they still plan on developing that area?

OTR is getting there, but it will take some more time before people in this city fully accept its re-emergence.

The streetcar only services the people who live within the direct city limits. It doesn't service the majority of the population who live in the burbs.

I think a system that uses the expressways as routes has a ton of promise but is a long time away. Its great that Mason/West Chester is developing, but I just don't see a rail line heading out that direction for a decade.

The final concern/problem that I have is people in the midwest like to drive. We like our car, we like the freedom of driving, traffic isn't all that bad, and our interstate system is pretty good. What concerns me is the Metro is underutilized as is, what is going to make light rail in this area successful?

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

For once we are more or less on the same page. While I strongly support public transportation projects, this just seems like such a waste to me.

I live at the Banks and I work downtown and I love public transportation. I can't see myself ever using this (if I am still there in 2014, which I doubt). Possibly occasionally I would use it on a Saturday/Sunday to grab lunch and a few things at Findley market. Anywhere else downtown, I can walk to easily. If I don't use this, who will?

Seems to me the $ would have been better spent just making the buses better and more reliable.

But that said at least the city is doing something, so like you I hope it will work out or at least spur additional projects.

In other news, Toby Keith's I Love This Bar and Grille opened at the Banks last week. I have been once. Not necessarily my kind of place (although you can't really go wrong with beer in mason jars), but from what I hear they have been crowded. And my guess is that a lot of people who go to Toby Keith's might not be heading downtown otherwise, so that is a great thing for the city and region.

And the Moerlein Brewery is apparently opening soon, and allegedly a Ruth's Chris and a few more places. The bottom line for this board is that there should be a whole lot more to do around the stadium before and after Reds games!

People don't/won't ride buses. This isn't just a Cincinnati thing it's a fairly common thread throughout the U.S. People don't like buses, don't view them as reliable, and don't really view them as a realistic alternative to fixed rail. There is no denying the amount of investment that follows fixed rail lines, including streetcars, in cities such as Portland, New Orleans and elsewhere. Buses, meanwhile, travel through some of the most decrepit parts of every city without so much as a dime of investment following. Point blank: Our society will not ride buses; it will ride a streetcar. And it will ride light rail, which will follow.

And don't forget, when envisioning whether you would ride the streetcar or not, that the original planned route traveled up the hill to uptown/UC/zoo. Would you walk there? Would you walk there in January? Would you walk back to The Banks after going to Festival of Lights? Answer: No. But you can blame our current joke of a governor for killing the uptown portion (for now) by stripping the $52 million in state funds already promised for the project. The city was left scrambling after that and had to scale down the project to the current Banks-to-Findlay Market line. Frankly, it's not ideal but we have to start somewhere. If we scuttled the whole thing due to the governor's petty politics, we'd NEVER see any progress. Rest assured though that the streetcar will certainly eventually extend up to the uptown/UC/zoo - and that's when its popularity and ridership will really take off. Whether you're living at The Banks when that happens or not is beside the point - somebody will be living there and they'll be glad to have the streetcar. In fact, they'll just take it for granted.

[redsmetz]

People don't/won't ride buses. This isn't just a Cincinnati thing it's a fairly common thread throughout the U.S. People don't like buses, don't view them as reliable, and don't really view them as a realistic alternative to fixed rail. There is no denying the amount of investment that follows fixed rail lines, including streetcars, in cities such as Portland, New Orleans and elsewhere. Buses, meanwhile, travel through some of the most decrepit parts of every city without so much as a dime of investment following. Point blank: Our society will not ride buses; it will ride a streetcar. And it will ride light rail, which will follow.

And don't forget, when envisioning whether you would ride the streetcar or not, that the original planned route traveled up the hill to uptown/UC/zoo. Would you walk there? Would you walk there in January? Would you walk back to The Banks after going to Festival of Lights? Answer: No. But you can blame our current joke of a governor for killing the uptown portion (for now) by stripping the $52 million in state funds already promised for the project. The city was left scrambling after that and had to scale down the project to the current Banks-to-Findlay Market line. Frankly, it's not ideal but we have to start somewhere. If we scuttled the whole thing due to the governor's petty politics, we'd NEVER see any progress. Rest assured though that the streetcar will certainly eventually extend up to the uptown/UC/zoo - and that's when its popularity and ridership will really take off. Whether you're living at The Banks when that happens or not is beside the point - somebody will be living there and they'll be glad to have the streetcar. In fact, they'll just take it for granted.

Just a point of clarification - the $52M was actually federal money to be passed through the state. The streetcar project received the highest score from the state Transportation Review Advisory Council (TRAC) for these funds, among numerous projects in the state. TRAC was established in 1997 to take some of the politics out of the equation. Where did that $52M of federal money go? To lower ranked road projects.

http://www.urbancincy.com/2011/03/ne...ati-streetcar/

[Caveman Techie]

This makes me want to cry. I was so on board back then, despite the costs, because I knew what it would mean. I still feel that no one who voted this down has the right to ***** when sitting in traffic on I-75. That's just me though.

I'm right there with you, this rail system would have been awesome. Everytime I hear someone complaining about gas prices I ask them how they voted on the light rail system. If their answer is they voted against it, I tell them they have no right to complain about gas prices then.