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Thread: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

  1. #16
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    Seemed a boutique item when meat and potatoes are needed.

    It's a neat idea, but should come after lots of other more critical transportation infrastructure components are built.
    The problem is that the funding for the Cincinnati Streetcar is being shifted to lower priority projects...that aren't in Cincinnati.

    This isn't saving any money, and it won't fund the police or fire departments (it never could since capital budgets cannot fund operating expenses). It's a giant middle finger to the city from Columbus.
    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

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  3. #17
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    This has been talked about before but I thought the 3C rail was a disaster. It was a poorly designed plan that was banking on funds to keep funneling into the program as it went further. The plan was eventually to create high speed rail but in essence it was going to start off as the traditional passenger rail that hasn't worked in America in decades.

    However I was fully in favor of the Street Car. I thought it was a good idea that would work based upon its original design and would have room for growth. I thought it would have been the basis for a more complete light rail in Cincy Metro area. Unfortunately it came about when the country and city was in a recession and the continued funding would have drained a city with a current budget problem. Had this plan arisen in 2004 or around there I think it would have been a success.

  4. #18
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    The same organizations that were foaming at the mouth over the street car will be doing the same times 10 over any light rail plan.

    Anyone remember metro moves in 2002? went down in flames with some helpful individuals saying "Why not just buy everyone a car with the money instead?"
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  5. #19
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    The same organizations that were foaming at the mouth over the street car will be doing the same times 10 over any light rail plan.

    Anyone remember metro moves in 2002? went down in flames with some helpful individuals saying "Why not just buy everyone a car with the money instead?"
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  6. #20
    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    When I visited Cincinnati, the bus/mass transit system was a bit confusing. So I didn't use it. I have been in supposedly poorer countries where the mass transportation system was easier to use. And with a language barrier on top of that.

  7. #21
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by RBA View Post
    When I visited Cincinnati, the bus/mass transit system was a bit confusing. So I didn't use it. I have been in supposedly poorer countries where the mass transportation system was easier to use. And with a language barrier on top of that.
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    The Governor's new Director of ODOT is a former asphalt and highway lobbyist. Essentially, anything on rails is screwed. 200-mph bullet trains could drop from the sky tomorrow free of charge and connect every Ohio city and town and the current administration would be against it.

    Let's continue to widen highways though, that's a good investment. And for folks calling for a greater regional light rail plan? Remember MetroMoves in 2002? Yep, that was voted down by Hamilton County residents. Wonder if that vote would have been different if people didn't think gas would always be $1.25 gallon back then?
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  9. #23
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    Ohio seems to hate it's cities and refuses to spend money on infrastructure that's not roads. I seriously wonder all the time if I should be raising my kids here, because it's not a state with much of a future.

    I can't picture a scenario where Ohio becomes innovative enough to attract jobs and seriously increase population. Hopefully I'm wrong, I really want to be. I love Columbus and many things about the state.

    Gas isn't going to get cheaper. If the streetcars (Columbus had plans for one also) and 3C weren't good ideas, then fair enough, but I'm not seeing anything else being offered besides spending cuts and wider roads.
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  10. #24
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Ohio seems to hate it's cities and refuses to spend money on infrastructure that's not roads. I seriously wonder all the time if I should be raising my kids here, because it's not a state with much of a future.

    I can't picture a scenario where Ohio becomes innovative enough to attract jobs and seriously increase population. Hopefully I'm wrong, I really want to be. I love Columbus and many things about the state.

    Gas isn't going to get cheaper. If the streetcars (Columbus had plans for one also) and 3C weren't good ideas, then fair enough, but I'm not seeing anything else being offered besides spending cuts and wider roads.
    I don't necessarily think its this. I think its all the additional costs that will go along with building the rail and light rail. There is/was only so much money allotted for the rail infrastructure projects and each individual state/municipality would have had to fork out a lot of money they didn't have to complete the project.

    I was all for the street car even though I realized that I wouldn't make good usage of it until 2-3 expansions down the road. Maybe it will be revisited if the OTR revival continues, the Banks is a success, and the Casino gets built.

  11. #25
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Ohio seems to hate it's cities and refuses to spend money on infrastructure that's not roads. I seriously wonder all the time if I should be raising my kids here, because it's not a state with much of a future.

    I can't picture a scenario where Ohio becomes innovative enough to attract jobs and seriously increase population. Hopefully I'm wrong, I really want to be. I love Columbus and many things about the state.
    Where does the idea come from that Ohio "seems to hate it's cities?" As has been the ongoing discussion in another thread, Cincinnati is spending tons of money developing the banks area right now. They've added new stadiums, a new bars/dining complex, a new garage, and they're building a park.

    Then, there is this story about the fantastic success 3CDC is having at renting remodeled and rehabilitated apartments in OTR:

    http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_...ithin-3-months

    I don't get where the idea is that people "hate" the cities. I think there's a very valid other side to this debate that gets overlooked -- namely that "city life" isn't for everyone. A lot of people enjoy the space and privacy that comes from the suburban lifestyle (having the yard for the kids to play in or for the dog to run in, etc.) and the relative affordability of owning property in the suburbs as opposed to the city. I think it's entirely possible (and indeed, sound policy) to run a State that caters to both types of citizens: urbanites and suburbanites. One way of life isn't inherently evil and the other way of life isn't inherently good.

    And, as far as infrastructure goes -- I'd like to see them revisit the idea of light rail in Cincinnati. I'm 100% in favor of high-speed rail (high speed from day 1, mind you) connecting the major cities in Ohio. But the projects they've curbed thus far have all had serious defects to them. The 3C line was an antiquated system that was being built on the promise (wink wink) that it would be something useful (high speed rail) eventually. The Streetcar didn't really serve a transportation need in the City, and the primary purpose for building it seemed to be this speculative claim that "development" would follow along the line. To that end, there are lots of ways to encourage development that don't result in the city incurring a yearly, multi-million dollar budget expense subsidizing a streetcar.

    I agree that Ohio needs to be forward thinking, but wake me when something forward thinking gets tabled and I'll be concerned then.
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  12. #26
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I don't get where the idea is that people "hate" the cities. I think there's a very valid other side to this debate that gets overlooked -- namely that "city life" isn't for everyone. A lot of people enjoy the space and privacy that comes from the suburban lifestyle (having the yard for the kids to play in or for the dog to run in, etc.) and the relative affordability of owning property in the suburbs as opposed to the city. I think it's entirely possible (and indeed, sound policy) to run a State that caters to both types of citizens: urbanites and suburbanites. One way of life isn't inherently evil and the other way of life isn't inherently good.
    I think those reasons pale in comparison to the larger reasons why folks care to live in the suburbs and that's crime, schools and cleanliness. I'm sure you could get a lot of bang for the buck if you bought a house in Over the Rhine but who wants to live there? Clean up the crime and folks without kids will come back. Clean up the schoolsand families will return as well. What is it about places like OTR that folks don't pickup there garbage? I understand poverty and all but there's not garbage blowing around in my neighborhood and it doesn't take money to throw your fastfood bags into a garbage can.

  13. #27
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    What is it about places like OTR that folks don't pickup there garbage? I understand poverty and all but there's not garbage blowing around in my neighborhood and it doesn't take money to throw your fastfood bags into a garbage can.
    You clearly haven't spent much time in OTR lately. It has changed tremendously over the past year.

  14. #28
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    You clearly haven't spent much time in OTR lately. It has changed tremendously over the past year.
    Don't stop there. Fill me in. Is the trash not stuck on the cyclone fences? Are the drug deals not happening on the street corners? Is the Diner on Sycamore doing a great business? Would you be OK with your single daughter living there?

  15. #29
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Don't stop there. Fill me in. Is the trash not stuck on the cyclone fences? Are the drug deals not happening on the street corners? Is the Diner on Sycamore doing a great business? Would you be OK with your single daughter living there?
    The trash is for the most part non-existent. Drug deals still happen, of course, but have reduced in frequency. Businesses are booming. I have never been to Joe's Diner On Sycamore but have heard good things. The Lackman, Senate, forkheartknife--all of these establishments have opened in the recent past and are packed on a regular basis. Findlay Market is always full of customers and features some unique shops you won't find anywhere else in the city. My wife works in Over The Thine and walks by Washington Park and The Drop Inn Center every morning and evening; she has yet to have any problems and there is always a strong police presence. I could go on and on, but you get my point.

  16. #30
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: R.I.P: The Cincinnati Streetcar

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    The trash is for the most part non-existent. Drug deals still happen, of course, but have reduced in frequency. Businesses are booming. I have never been to Joe's Diner On Sycamore but have heard good things. The Lackman, Senate, forkheartknife--all of these establishments have opened in the recent past and are packed on a regular basis. Findlay Market is always full of customers and features some unique shops you won't find anywhere else in the city. My wife works in Over The Thine and walks by Washington Park and The Drop Inn Center every morning and evening; she has yet to have any problems and there is always a strong police presence. I could go on and on, but you get my point.
    That says it all. In nice areas you don't notice the police presence.


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