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Thread: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

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    Blowing away bad memories Redsfan320's Avatar
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    RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    MODS: Please MOVE thread to THE TAVERN. I'm a bit brain-dead this morning. THANKS

    Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

    Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

    Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

    Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

    Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

    Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

    Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

    Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

    Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

    Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

    Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

    Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

    Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

    Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

    Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

    Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer

    Let the voting begin!

    320
    I'd rather listen to Kelch read the phone book than suffer through Thom Brennaman's attempt to make every instance on the field the most important event since the discovery of manned space flight. -westofyou

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    Member chicoruiz's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Strange seeding...either Bench or Gibson will be eliminated in round 1, but one of Porter/Kendall will advance???
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan320 View Post
    MODS: Please MOVE thread to THE TAVERN. I'm a bit brain-dead this morning. THANKS

    Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

    Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

    Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

    Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

    Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

    Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

    Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

    Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

    Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

    Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

    Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

    Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

    >>>Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella
    By far the toughest of the matchups.

    BILL Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

    Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

    Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer

    Let the voting begin!

    320
    Just a side note. Looked up Roy Freehan and found nothing. I found a Bill Freehan catcher of the Detroit Tigers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Freehan
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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

    Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

    Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

    Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

    Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

    Mike Piazza
    vs. Bob Boone

    Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

    Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

    Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

    Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

    Jorge Posada
    vs. Buck Ewing

    Wally Schang
    vs. Joe Torre

    Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

    Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

    Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

    Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer



    I didn't vote for someone if I had not heard of them. That is why I have a few blanks. Pudge didn't get my vote because of roids.

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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan320 View Post
    MODS: Please MOVE thread to THE TAVERN. I'm a bit brain-dead this morning. THANKS

    Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

    Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

    Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

    Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

    Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

    Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

    Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

    Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

    Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

    Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

    Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

    Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

    Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

    Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

    Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

    Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer
    Let the voting begin!

    320
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan320 View Post
    MODS: Please MOVE thread to THE TAVERN. I'm a bit brain-dead this morning. THANKS

    Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

    Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

    Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

    Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

    Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

    Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

    Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

    Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

    Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

    Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

    Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

    Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

    Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

    Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

    Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

    Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer

    Let the voting begin!

    320
    Poor choice of seeding. Gibson might be the best catcher of all time, but the lack of statistics keeps him from getting my vote over the other obvious choice for the top spot.

    Freehan deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, IMO, and is the one guy really underrated here.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
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    -- Leo Durocher

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    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

    Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

    Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

    Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

    Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

    Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

    Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

    Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg
    I used to teach Jim's grandkids; pretty cool guy.

    Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

    Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

    Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

    Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

    Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

    Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett
    I'm assuming you mean Bill Freehan.

    Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

    Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer
    A tough call but Mauer has put up numbers rarely seen at his position.

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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

    You can pencil in Bench to the finals for me. By all accounts Gibson was one of the best Negro League players of all time. If he weren't against Bench in the 1st round he would have advanced far for me.

    Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

    The closest to Bench I have seen.

    Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

    Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

    Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

    Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

    Piazza was a terrible defensive catcher,IMO. Boone was very good defensively and was great with handling pitchers.
    Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

    Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

    Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish
    Tough one here. Simmons was very average on defense but was a terrific all around hitter.

    Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace
    Tenace lived off of that 1972 World Series. IMO,he was very average,at best, for his career.

    Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

    Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

    Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella
    Tough one here. Both had shortened careers due to tradgdy. Campy's career may have been slighly better.

    Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett
    I had to look up Bennett. He played in the 1800's. Totally different game then with different rules.

    Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall
    Flip a coin here. Two very average catchers who were decent hitters.
    Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer

    The jury is still out on Mauer. He's very good but I would need to see him a couple of more years before putting him over Lombardi.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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    Blowing away bad memories Redsfan320's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    1st, apparently I did mean Bill Freehan. My bad.

    Secondly, I ranked the top 20 seeds by B-R WAR top 20 at the position, then the other dozen were nominees by other posters I ranked by B-R WAR. As Gibson never played MLB, he has no WAR, so I saw it as only fair to rank him 32, since, fair or not, he never played MLB.

    320
    I'd rather listen to Kelch read the phone book than suffer through Thom Brennaman's attempt to make every instance on the field the most important event since the discovery of manned space flight. -westofyou

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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan320 View Post

    Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

    Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

    Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

    Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen I just never liked Carter, esp after he left the Expos.

    Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

    Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

    Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

    Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

    Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

    Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

    Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

    Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre- Torre wasn't a catcher enough for my vote

    Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

    Bill Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

    Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

    Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer
    Hey we forgot Tim McCarver.

    Here's a site which is a good reference point for info on catchers
    http://members.tripod.com/bb_catcher...rs/allstar.htm

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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Hey we forgot Tim McCarver.

    Here's a site which is a good reference point for info on catchers
    http://members.tripod.com/bb_catcher...rs/allstar.htm
    Hall of famer Al Lopez to.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Quote Originally Posted by chicoruiz View Post
    Strange seeding...either Bench or Gibson will be eliminated in round 1, but one of Porter/Kendall will advance???
    That's the tough one. I will complete my selections in another post, but Bench vs. Gibson is arguably a comparison between the two greatest catachers of all time.
    Bill James ranked Josh Gibson as the 9th greatest player of all time, higher than any other catcher. Gibson was regarded as the Negro League's "Babe Ruth". If he really was the Babe's equal as a hitter then there is an argument that Gibson was the greatest player of all time, given that he was a catcher while Ruth was an outfielder (of course Ruth was also a superb pitcher which would put the Babe back on top).
    However I do not have a good handle on the statistics of the Negro Leagues and black players of that era have the same "problem" as do white players of the same era--although it is not their fault, they didn't play against all of the best players of the time because of segregation. Babe Ruth didn't routinely face Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson didn't normally bat against Lefty Grove.
    I also believe that the quality of play has increased over time. I believe that Ruth and Gibson would still be stars today, probably superstars, but I do give "bonus points" to players in the more modern era.
    I know I have my bias as a Reds fan, but when I vote I will vote for Bench. I'm not sure how high to rank Gibson but I do know that Johnny Bench is the greatest catcher I have ever seen.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan320 View Post
    MODS: Please MOVE thread to THE TAVERN. I'm a bit brain-dead this morning. THANKS

    Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

    Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

    Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

    Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

    Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

    Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

    Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

    Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

    Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

    Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

    Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

    Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

    Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

    Bill Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

    Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

    Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer
    Let the voting begin!

    320
    Its Bill Freehan. Votes in bold.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan320 View Post
    MODS: Please MOVE thread to THE TAVERN. I'm a bit brain-dead this morning. THANKS

    Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

    Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

    Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

    Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

    Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

    Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

    Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

    Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

    Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

    Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

    Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

    Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

    Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

    Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

    Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

    Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer

    Let the voting begin!

    320
    Bench
    Rodriguez
    Fisk
    Carter
    Berra
    Piazza
    Dickey
    Cochrane
    Simmons
    Hartnett
    Ewing
    Torre
    Campanella
    Freehan
    Porter
    Mauer
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    Re: RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

    Bump there are some really competitive races left to be determined. Right now my counts are:

    Bench 9, Gibson 0
    Rodriguez 8, Scioscia 1
    Fisk 9, Santiago 0
    Carter 8, Sanguillen 1
    Berra 9, Martinez 0
    Piazza 8, Boone 1
    Dickey 8, Howard 0
    Coachrane 7, Sundberg 2
    Simmons 6, Parrish 2
    Hartnett 6, Tenace 2
    Posada 4, Ewing 5
    Schang 3, Torre 6
    Munson 0, Campanella 9
    Freehan 7, Bennett 1
    Porter 5, Kendall 4
    Lombard 3, Mauer 6

    Feel free to check my math.

    For fun if the "bracket" holds.

    Prediction: Bench over Campy in the finals.
    Last edited by Slyder; 03-29-2011 at 11:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post
    Barmaid to patron "Sir you are slurring, I am going to have to cut you off"

    Patron to barmaid "I'm not slurring, I'm speaking in cursive"



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