RZ Greatest catcher tournament- Rd. 1

[Redsfan320]

MODS: Please MOVE thread to THE TAVERN. I'm a bit brain-dead this morning. THANKS

Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer

Let the voting begin!

320

[chicoruiz]

Strange seeding...either Bench or Gibson will be eliminated in round 1, but one of Porter/Kendall will advance???

[Slyder]

MODS: Please MOVE thread to THE TAVERN. I'm a bit brain-dead this morning. THANKS

Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

>>>Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella
By far the toughest of the matchups.

BILL Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer

Let the voting begin!

320

Just a side note. Looked up Roy Freehan and found nothing. I found a Bill Freehan catcher of the Detroit Tigers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Freehan

[bucksfan2]

Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer



I didn't vote for someone if I had not heard of them. That is why I have a few blanks. Pudge didn't get my vote because of roids.

[George Anderson]

MODS: Please MOVE thread to THE TAVERN. I'm a bit brain-dead this morning. THANKS

Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer
Let the voting begin!

320

[Scrap Irony]

MODS: Please MOVE thread to THE TAVERN. I'm a bit brain-dead this morning. THANKS

Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer

Let the voting begin!

320

Poor choice of seeding. Gibson might be the best catcher of all time, but the lack of statistics keeps him from getting my vote over the other obvious choice for the top spot.

Freehan deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, IMO, and is the one guy really underrated here.

[reds1869]

Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg
I used to teach Jim's grandkids; pretty cool guy.

Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett
I'm assuming you mean Bill Freehan.

Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer
A tough call but Mauer has put up numbers rarely seen at his position.

[cumberlandreds]

Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

You can pencil in Bench to the finals for me. By all accounts Gibson was one of the best Negro League players of all time. If he weren't against Bench in the 1st round he would have advanced far for me.

Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

The closest to Bench I have seen.

Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

Piazza was a terrible defensive catcher,IMO. Boone was very good defensively and was great with handling pitchers.
Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish
Tough one here. Simmons was very average on defense but was a terrific all around hitter.

Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace
Tenace lived off of that 1972 World Series. IMO,he was very average,at best, for his career.

Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella
Tough one here. Both had shortened careers due to tradgdy. Campy's career may have been slighly better.

Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett
I had to look up Bennett. He played in the 1800's. Totally different game then with different rules.

Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall
Flip a coin here. Two very average catchers who were decent hitters.
Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer

The jury is still out on Mauer. He's very good but I would need to see him a couple of more years before putting him over Lombardi.

[Redsfan320]

1st, apparently I did mean Bill Freehan. My bad.

Secondly, I ranked the top 20 seeds by B-R WAR top 20 at the position, then the other dozen were nominees by other posters I ranked by B-R WAR. As Gibson never played MLB, he has no WAR, so I saw it as only fair to rank him 32, since, fair or not, he never played MLB.

320

[klw]

Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen I just never liked Carter, esp after he left the Expos.

Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre- Torre wasn't a catcher enough for my vote

Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

Bill Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer

Hey we forgot Tim McCarver.

Here's a site which is a good reference point for info on catchers
http://members.tripod.com/bb_catcher...rs/allstar.htm

[George Anderson]

Hey we forgot Tim McCarver.

Here's a site which is a good reference point for info on catchers
http://members.tripod.com/bb_catcher...rs/allstar.htm

Hall of famer Al Lopez to.

[RedsBaron]

Strange seeding...either Bench or Gibson will be eliminated in round 1, but one of Porter/Kendall will advance???

That's the tough one. I will complete my selections in another post, but Bench vs. Gibson is arguably a comparison between the two greatest catachers of all time.
Bill James ranked Josh Gibson as the 9th greatest player of all time, higher than any other catcher. Gibson was regarded as the Negro League's "Babe Ruth". If he really was the Babe's equal as a hitter then there is an argument that Gibson was the greatest player of all time, given that he was a catcher while Ruth was an outfielder (of course Ruth was also a superb pitcher which would put the Babe back on top).
However I do not have a good handle on the statistics of the Negro Leagues and black players of that era have the same "problem" as do white players of the same era--although it is not their fault, they didn't play against all of the best players of the time because of segregation. Babe Ruth didn't routinely face Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson didn't normally bat against Lefty Grove.
I also believe that the quality of play has increased over time. I believe that Ruth and Gibson would still be stars today, probably superstars, but I do give "bonus points" to players in the more modern era.
I know I have my bias as a Reds fan, but when I vote I will vote for Bench. I'm not sure how high to rank Gibson but I do know that Johnny Bench is the greatest catcher I have ever seen.

[mth123]

MODS: Please MOVE thread to THE TAVERN. I'm a bit brain-dead this morning. THANKS

Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

Bill Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer
Let the voting begin!

320

Its Bill Freehan. Votes in bold.

[RedsBaron]

MODS: Please MOVE thread to THE TAVERN. I'm a bit brain-dead this morning. THANKS

Johnny Bench vs. Josh Gibson

Ivan Rodriguez vs. Mike Scioscia

Carlton Fisk. vs. Benito Santiago

Gary Carter vs. Manny Sanguillen

Yogi Berra vs. Victor Martinez

Mike Piazza vs. Bob Boone

Bill Dickey vs. Elston Howard

Mickey Cochrane vs. Jim Sundberg

Ted Simmons vs. Lance Parrish

Gabby Hartnett vs. Gene Tenace

Jorge Posada vs. Buck Ewing

Wally Schang vs. Joe Torre

Thurman Munson vs. Roy Campanella

Roy Freehan vs. Charlie Bennett

Darrell Porter vs. Jason Kendall

Ernie Lombardi vs. Joe Mauer

Let the voting begin!

320

Bench
Rodriguez
Fisk
Carter
Berra
Piazza
Dickey
Cochrane
Simmons
Hartnett
Ewing
Torre
Campanella
Freehan
Porter
Mauer

[Slyder]

Bump there are some really competitive races left to be determined. Right now my counts are:

Bench 9, Gibson 0
Rodriguez 8, Scioscia 1
Fisk 9, Santiago 0
Carter 8, Sanguillen 1
Berra 9, Martinez 0
Piazza 8, Boone 1
Dickey 8, Howard 0
Coachrane 7, Sundberg 2
Simmons 6, Parrish 2
Hartnett 6, Tenace 2
Posada 4, Ewing 5
Schang 3, Torre 6
Munson 0, Campanella 9
Freehan 7, Bennett 1
Porter 5, Kendall 4
Lombard 3, Mauer 6

Feel free to check my math.

For fun if the "bracket" holds.

Prediction: Bench over Campy in the finals.