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Thread: NCAA Early Entry Thread

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    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    NCAA Early Entry Thread

    With the coaching carousel thread I thought this would be a good one for the NBA draft and defections:

    Kyrie Irving is officially going pro:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2...ory?id=6301656

    I'd venture to say Irving is a top 3 pick. Only ones I would consider would be Derrick Williams from Arizona or Perry Jones from Baylor.
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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    Trey Thompkins of UGA has entered the draft and hired an agent. So he's done in college.
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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    The Richmond kid from Illinois declared and supposedly hired an agent. Guess his family really needs $$ because while he is a solid player, I can't see him being a 1st round pick.
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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    UCLA's Tyler Honeycutt and the Morris twins of Kansas are taking the plunge.
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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    I guess Zeller and Henson are staying put. Harrison Barnes is going to take more time to decide.

    I see Henson and Zeller staying, but Barnes is likely a top 5 pick, regardless of what Roy Williams says. I don't think he could do much to improve his draft stock, especially with a loaded class next year coming in.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    I'll be surprised if Barnes returns for the reasons you just mentioned.

    Anyway, here's a tracker:

    http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/...sp?CID=1208395
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    It's amazing how much these NBA scouts project players based on potential. I don't know if you guys are remember former Louisville forward Samardo Samuels, but here's a guy that ESPN/USA Today tabbed as the #1 high school prospect coming out of high school in '08. Had he been able to turn pro then he would have most assuredly been a top 10 lottery pick. He goes on to Louisville and as a freshman starts every game and helps the Cards to a #1 overall seed in the NCAA tourney.
    However, at this point he's on a team with two other NBA lottery picks (Terrence Williams and Earl Clark). So his value drops from top 10 to late first-round in one season. Then in his sophomore year he averages 16 PPG and 9 RBP while being the focal point of the offense. That year's Louisville team gets bounced in the first-round of the NCAA tournament. Samuel's decides to turn pro given his family's dire financial situation and goes undrafted. Luckily the Cleveland Cavs picked him up as a FA, but how in the world does a player improve year-to-year, but yet sees his draft stock value drop each year? Potential. NBA teams put way too much value into potential when grading out these players in my honest opinion. Yea, yea I know they most of these guys loaded with potential are young and raw, but if I'm a GM give me a 3 or 4 year college guy that knows how to win and is experienced over someone tabbed with "potential".
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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    I'm not sure why these guys are going pro when there appears that there's going to be a work stoppage that has more of a chance at delaying the season than the NFL situation. They aren't going to get paid if there is no basketball to play.
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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ruREaDy2 View Post
    It's amazing how much these NBA scouts project players based on potential. I don't know if you guys are remember former Louisville forward Samardo Samuels, but here's a guy that ESPN/USA Today tabbed as the #1 high school prospect coming out of high school in '08. Had he been able to turn pro then he would have most assuredly been a top 10 lottery pick. He goes on to Louisville and as a freshman starts every game and helps the Cards to a #1 overall seed in the NCAA tourney.
    However, at this point he's on a team with two other NBA lottery picks (Terrence Williams and Earl Clark). So his value drops from top 10 to late first-round in one season. Then in his sophomore year he averages 16 PPG and 9 RBP while being the focal point of the offense. That year's Louisville team gets bounced in the first-round of the NCAA tournament. Samuel's decides to turn pro given his family's dire financial situation and goes undrafted. Luckily the Cleveland Cavs picked him up as a FA, but how in the world does a player improve year-to-year, but yet sees his draft stock value drop each year? Potential. NBA teams put way too much value into potential when grading out these players in my honest opinion. Yea, yea I know they most of these guys loaded with potential are young and raw, but if I'm a GM give me a 3 or 4 year college guy that knows how to win and is experienced over someone tabbed with "potential".
    Samuels' handle was exposed, as was his range.

    In high school they projected Samardo as a long power forward with 20-23 foot range, who could also put the ball on the floor to get around defenders. They also projected him to defend quite a bit better.

    High school evaluators missed on his lateral quickness (or lack thereof), too.

    As a result, his pro potential took a major hit.

    As to potential, my opinion is that those veteran college guys are relatively easy to find on the free agent front. The potential is a lottery ticket that could get punched.

    Looking back, would you rather have a team of Kerry Kittles, Erick Dampier, and Todd Fullers, or would you rather gamble on Kobe Bryant?
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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    Scrap Irony,

    You make some valid points. It's almost as if these players that are highly touted coming out of high school should just sit out in college so that they don't get their weaknesses exposed (i.e.- UK's Enes Kanter, Duke's Kyrie Irving to some extent due to injury). That's unrealistic I know, but it is kinda the way the NBA evaluation system is set up now.

    And as far as whether or not to take a gamble on a Kobe type player; you have a better chance at getting a Kwame Brown, Greg Oden, Jonathan Bender, or Darko Milicic type bust than a NBA star. Which I'm sure you already know, but point taken, point taken.
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    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    Not going to the NBA, but Jordan Latham and Jay Canty are transferring away from Xavier.

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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    I see Henson and Zeller staying, but Barnes is likely a top 5 pick, regardless of what Roy Williams says. I don't think he could do much to improve his draft stock, especially with a loaded class next year coming in.
    Roy Williams has not said anything except that Harrison and he were still gathering info. What Chad Ford reported was blatently wrong.

    And there is plenty Barnes can do to improve his draft status. Starting with ballhandling. He was not great with that all year.
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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    Roy Williams has not said anything except that Harrison and he were still gathering info. What Chad Ford reported was blatently wrong.

    And there is plenty Barnes can do to improve his draft status. Starting with ballhandling. He was not great with that all year.
    If you are being projected as a top 3 pick, there really isn't that much you can do to improve your stock. A lot could depend on whether or not Derrick Williams comes out. If he stays at Arizona, Barnes is immediately the top SF available.

    As for the ballhandling, the NBA drafts solely on talent. If anything, staying in school for an extra year generally hurts your draft stock, especially if you get hurt.

    Don't get me wrong, I would be ecstatic if Jones, Knight, Lamb, and Liggins all announced they were coming back next year. If one of them got hurt and it cost them millions though, I would be questioning whether they made the right choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    If you are being projected as a top 3 pick, there really isn't that much you can do to improve your stock.
    There's a big difference between improving your stock and making sure you are ready to be a productive NBA player. And if the league gets its way in reducing contract length, I think it will be even more advantageous for players to do the latter.

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    Re: NCAA Early Entry Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat13 View Post
    There's a big difference between improving your stock and making sure you are ready to be a productive NBA player. And if the league gets its way in reducing contract length, I think it will be even more advantageous for players to do the latter.
    Exactly. Everyone is so quick to point out the money angle. These kids will be giving up millions to go back, blah, blah, blah. The simple fact of the matter is most 19 year old kids are not ready to play an NBA season.

    The lionshare of these kids who leave early play less than 20 minutes per game their rookie year. They go from never having sat on the bench to playing about a quarter plus 6 minutes per game. Basically they get paid to sit on the bench. The longer you stay in college, sure you might not improve your draft stock but you become more NBA ready and once you get in league you then get in running.

    Me, my feelings are the money will always be there. WVRed you keep mentioning injuries - name me 5 guys who had draft altering injuries in the last 5 years? How bout 10 years. No where near the percentage you are making it out to be. So, the money will be there why not stay where you can play 35 plus a game, win and win big, and get yourself more mature to be able to handle the rigors of NBA life?

    My point is I don't begrudge these kids one way or another. If they want to stay then by all means they should. If they want to leave then they should. Each kid is different so who are we to judge them.
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