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Thread: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

  1. #616
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Still stuck at the whiffle ball level? You never have lived up to your potential since you were named the top prospect in the tee ball leagues. And I will hold that against you until the day you die. Whenever someone mentions the name dougdirt, I will tell them the tale of your failure to live up to your expectations set by other men.
    It's as if you are pulling thoughts about Adam Dunn from Marty Brennaman's head and just inserting doug's name. Shenanigans times two google billion!
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thats over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.
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  4. #617
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Being "more consistent" means evening out the highs and lows, not just the lows. It sounds like you are asking him to be "consistently good", which is completely different than "more consistent". You just want him to be a better player, not more consistent.

    Heck, we would all like Bruce (and the other players too) to be better than he is, but wishing it won't make it happen. "What the Reds need him to produce" doesn't really have any effect on how good or bad he is. Players don't get better simply because the team needs them to be better. If that were the case the Astros' players would be improving by leaps and bounds. Jay Bruce is doing the best his talent and skills enable him to do, and that is pretty darn good actually. The Reds really need several more Jay Bruces.
    Lord, talk about stating the obvious. Do you really think I don't understand at that level?

    Since they don't have more Jay Bruce's, they need more production from the slot on the team Bruce holds. There was no wishing him to be, I am talking about what the Reds need, not necessarily what a player is. Because Bruce isn't enough, they need another big bat on this team. I see nothing wrong with identifying a need and mentioning that Bruce's attributes make the Reds need a hitter better than him in the in lineup to be a more complete team. It may be a pipe dream, but it is nothing personal against Bruce. I hope he takes a big step forward this season as he approaches his prime years and maybe he'll fill the shoes needing filled and it is filling behind him, not ahead of him. But the clock continues to tick on his upside. Why does everyone have to be so defensive about certain players?
    Can't win with 'em

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  5. #618
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Because Bruce IS what the team needs him to be.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  7. #619
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Because Bruce IS what the team needs him to be.
    They have an empty slot. Votto, empty slot, Bruce, and an assorted collection of 6-7 hole hitters to finish things out. This offense is the team's weakness, just a collection of misfit toys.
    Can't win with 'em

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  8. #620
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    I am still disappointed that the Votto/Bruce back-to-back in the lineup only lasted a week or so. I would really like to see them get back to that order, even if it is Votto and Bruce hitting 2nd and 3rd. Someone should really talk to Brandon Phillips about OBP. Last year it was, according to him, because he was batting 4th and his job was to drive runs in. Price needs to go talk to him and tell him that his job is to get on base. The RBI will come if he gets on base.

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  10. #621
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am still disappointed that the Votto/Bruce back-to-back in the lineup only lasted a week or so. I would really like to see them get back to that order, even if it is Votto and Bruce hitting 2nd and 3rd. Someone should really talk to Brandon Phillips about OBP. Last year it was, according to him, because he was batting 4th and his job was to drive runs in. Price needs to go talk to him and tell him that his job is to get on base. The RBI will come if he gets on base.
    Baseball tradition is to hit your best hitter 3rd. Given the absence of 1-2 guys who know how to get on base I totally support Votto hitting second but has a team expected to contend ever had a 3 hitter who RC+ under 100 in the 2 full prior seasons? If the batter hitting in the lineups premier spot can't even create runs at a league average rate then we've got huge problems.

    I'd start by moving up Bruce and Ludwick and probably have Mes hitting above him very soon.

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  12. #622
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Lord, talk about stating the obvious. Do you really think I don't understand at that level?

    Since they don't have more Jay Bruce's, they need more production from the slot on the team Bruce holds. There was no wishing him to be, I am talking about what the Reds need, not necessarily what a player is. Because Bruce isn't enough, they need another big bat on this team. I see nothing wrong with identifying a need and mentioning that Bruce's attributes make the Reds need a hitter better than him in the in lineup to be a more complete team. It may be a pipe dream, but it is nothing personal against Bruce. I hope he takes a big step forward this season as he approaches his prime years and maybe he'll fill the shoes needing filled and it is filling behind him, not ahead of him. But the clock continues to tick on his upside. Why does everyone have to be so defensive about certain players?
    I was trying to politely point out the difference between "more consistent" and "consistently good". I'm sorry if it came off as rude. I wasn't calling you out, but since you reacted harshly I will elaborate. Yes I do think you don't understand at that level. You stated in post #578:

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Wouldn't it be intuitive if a hitter produces X results, that being "more consistent," however we define this, is going to necessarily improve his numbers, create more runs, and improve his team's production?
    That makes it quite clear you don't understand what "more consistent" means.

    People are always saying "He needs to be more consistent". People say that all the time about many players. It is not just you. It is not just Jay Bruce. People don't understand what "more consistent" means. Some people think it means "consistently good", but it doesn't. It means evening out his production, taking away the lows and the highs but finishing in the end with the same production. Being more consistent does not improve a player's overall production, it doesn't create more runs and it doesn't make him better. Pointing out this fact has nothing to do with being defensive about Jay Bruce.

    When you hear someone commenting that a player needs to be more consistent it instantly shows they don't know what they're talking about. People want to comment on a player but don't know what to say so all they can come up with is "he needs to be more consistent". It is a common way of saying nothing at all. Kind of like when people say "He is what he is". Some people speak without having anything to say.

    People are free to critique Bruce's strengths and weaknesses. If you think Jay Bruce isn't good enough that is a valid opinion. If you wish Jay Bruce was a better player that is OK too. Claiming that a more consistent Jay Bruce is a better, more productive Jay Bruce is not a valid critique because it is not accurate and hence won't be taken seriously by most people.

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  14. #623
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by UC_Ken View Post
    Baseball tradition is to hit your best hitter 3rd. Given the absence of 1-2 guys who know how to get on base I totally support Votto hitting second but has a team expected to contend ever had a 3 hitter who RC+ under 100 in the 2 full prior seasons? If the batter hitting in the lineups premier spot can't even create runs at a league average rate then we've got huge problems.

    I'd start by moving up Bruce and Ludwick and probably have Mes hitting above him very soon.
    I'm all for Mes batting 3 right now:

    Hamilton
    Votto
    Mes
    Bruce
    Phillips
    Ludwick
    Frazier
    Cozart

    Maybe flip Mes and Bruce against tough righties. Ride Mes until he shows he shouldn't hit there. At that point put the current hottest right handed batter there and or look for one at the deadline.

  15. #624
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    I'm down with batting Mez 3rd, but I have a feeling when he cools off it'll be blamed because he "couldn't handle hitting third."
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  17. #625
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    What's awesome is that this thread was started over three years ago, is 42 pages long, and it doesn't look like anyone has changed their mind on Bruce.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  18. #626
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am still disappointed that the Votto/Bruce back-to-back in the lineup only lasted a week or so. I would really like to see them get back to that order, even if it is Votto and Bruce hitting 2nd and 3rd. Someone should really talk to Brandon Phillips about OBP. Last year it was, according to him, because he was batting 4th and his job was to drive runs in. Price needs to go talk to him and tell him that his job is to get on base. The RBI will come if he gets on base.
    Im on the same page! Votto 2nd , Bruce 3rd, Rocco 4th (until he cools down, than put frazier, ludwick whoever gets hot there)... I would like to see BP as leadoff hitter trying to get on base! as soon as billy gets on base more frequently he gets the job back, but so far his obp is to bad to hit leadoff... and it is hard to GIDP while hitting leadoff
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein

  19. #627
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    So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by powersackers View Post
    Because it's so extreme and unlike any hitter in history?
    Funny how old I must be. Johnny Bench would go 0 for 30 then hit 6 home runs in a week. He did this more than once in his career. Marty in his dementia fails to remember any of this. Reggie Jackson was the same way, but some of his managers were quoted that when he was on a streak it was amazing. He had several poor World Series until he had the great one when he was on a roll so he became Mister October. No body remembers what happened last year. Let's see what Jay Bruce's numbers are at the end of the year. I think that will tell the tale.
    Oh don't look now but he's ripped the ball the last two days in Wrigley.
    Reds fan since 1968 win or lose.

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  21. #628
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by tomnuetten View Post
    Im on the same page! Votto 2nd , Bruce 3rd, Rocco 4th (until he cools down, than put frazier, ludwick whoever gets hot there)... I would like to see BP as leadoff hitter trying to get on base! as soon as billy gets on base more frequently he gets the job back, but so far his obp is to bad to hit leadoff... and it is hard to GIDP while hitting leadoff
    Hamilton is getting on base fine since April 9. I do agree with your 2,3,4 hitters. I'd put BP with Frazier and Ludwick.
    Reds fan since 1968 win or lose.

  22. #629
    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I'm down with batting Mez 3rd, but I have a feeling when he cools off it'll be blamed because he "couldn't handle hitting third."
    At this point if he cools off he's still on fire. Right now he's like on nuclear fusion.

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  24. #630
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    I was trying to politely point out the difference between "more consistent" and "consistently good". I'm sorry if it came off as rude. I wasn't calling you out, but since you reacted harshly I will elaborate. Yes I do think you don't understand at that level. You stated in post #578:



    That makes it quite clear you don't understand what "more consistent" means.

    People are always saying "He needs to be more consistent". People say that all the time about many players. It is not just you. It is not just Jay Bruce. People don't understand what "more consistent" means. Some people think it means "consistently good", but it doesn't. It means evening out his production, taking away the lows and the highs but finishing in the end with the same production. Being more consistent does not improve a player's overall production, it doesn't create more runs and it doesn't make him better. Pointing out this fact has nothing to do with being defensive about Jay Bruce.

    When you hear someone commenting that a player needs to be more consistent it instantly shows they don't know what they're talking about. People want to comment on a player but don't know what to say so all they can come up with is "he needs to be more consistent". It is a common way of saying nothing at all. Kind of like when people say "He is what he is". Some people speak without having anything to say.

    People are free to critique Bruce's strengths and weaknesses. If you think Jay Bruce isn't good enough that is a valid opinion. If you wish Jay Bruce was a better player that is OK too. Claiming that a more consistent Jay Bruce is a better, more productive Jay Bruce is not a valid critique because it is not accurate and hence won't be taken seriously by most people.
    With all due respect, you have entirely missed the point by taking the position that "people do not understand what 'more consistent' means." What you have elaborated on is already assumed in the discussion as far as I'm concerned, but thanks for the discourse.
    Can't win with 'em

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