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Thread: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

  1. #256
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think a lot of people are missing the point with Bruce. The issue isn't what his small sample size stats say or even that anyone thinks he's a bad player. This issue, at least for me, is that Jay Bruce appeared to finally get it at the end of 2010. He seemed ready to take that step forward to becoming the consistent middle of the order run producer this team needs to win games over the course of a season. I think the Reds thought so as well or they would have acquired somebody to play that role. Instead, we heard quotes about young players improving and improvement coming from within. Jay Bruce will surely have a hot streak or two in 2011 and his overall numbers will be pretty good IMO. But he won't be the consistent middle of the order bat that this team needs and seems to be counting on. Its not that he's a bad player, but he hasn't become the centerpiece. He's still a keeper.

    This thread asks when he'll start hitting. Given his history of prolonged slumps where he contributes little to the offense day in and day out, its a fair question to wonder how long this slump will last. Games are won and lost every day. Long slumps around red hot streaks may show differently in the overall results than how it actually contributes to the W/L recored. Bruce has done a little better lately, but his approach still looks off and a couple of IF hits propping up his numbers over a small smattering of PAs doesn't really mean that he's turned the corner. Anybody watching the games can tell he's not really an asset offensively no matter what the box scores may show.
    This is a great post.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

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  3. #257
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Small sample size, but Jay Bruce since moving up to the #2 spot in the order:

    .313/.421/.688 - 1.109 OPS, 3 BB/3 K in 19 PA

    He looks more comfortable and relaxed at the plate. Before the switch he was swinging at everything, now he's laying off the junk out of the zone and getting back to the approach that made him successful last August and September. Hopefully Dusty keeps him there.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  4. #258
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Small sample size, but Jay Bruce since moving up to the #2 spot in the order:

    .313/.421/.688 - 1.109 OPS, 3 BB/3 K in 19 PA

    He looks more comfortable and relaxed at the plate. Before the switch he was swinging at everything, now he's laying off the junk out of the zone and getting back to the approach that made him successful last August and September. Hopefully Dusty keeps him there.
    You apparently missed the memo. The cement hardened on Bruce. He can't possibly improve. He is what he is because he's already 24.

  5. #259
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    You apparently missed the memo. The cement hardened on Bruce. He can't possibly improve. He is what he is because he's already 24.
    Funny. Never heard anyone say this or saw it in print anywhere until I read your post just now.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  6. #260
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    I would be very worried if Jay's productivity is critically dependent on his spot in the order.

  7. #261
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Small sample size, but Jay Bruce since moving up to the #2 spot in the order:

    .313/.421/.688 - 1.109 OPS, 3 BB/3 K in 19 PA

    He looks more comfortable and relaxed at the plate. Before the switch he was swinging at everything, now he's laying off the junk out of the zone and getting back to the approach that made him successful last August and September. Hopefully Dusty keeps him there.
    I don't think this is necessary. I think once Jay starts hitting consistently, they can move him back to a more natural slot in the order. Personally, I think it's a great move to get ANY struggling hitter going. You can't get much better protection than Votto. But leaving Bruce there is taking away possible protection for Joey. I don't want them pitching around Votto all year.

    Btw...look how it worked for Phillips too. It's all about seeing more pitches that you can hit...and that'll happen most in the slot before Votto.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 04-30-2011 at 11:33 AM.

  8. #262
    Dyslexic Taquitos Quatitos's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I would be very worried if Jay's productivity is critically dependent on his spot in the order.
    I don't think so, I seem to remember them saying during one of the games that Dusty was working with him hard about swinging at bad breaking balls and hitting balls the other way.

  9. #263
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    When Rolen comes back how about a lineup that looks something like this?

    1. Phillips
    2. Bruce
    3. Votto
    4. Rolen
    5. Stubbs
    6. Gomes
    7. Hanigan/Henandez
    8. Janish
    Most Vottomatic Player

  10. #264
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quatitos View Post
    I don't think so, I seem to remember them saying during one of the games that Dusty was working with him hard about swinging at bad breaking balls and hitting balls the other way.
    What does that have to do with batting order?

  11. #265
    Yay! dabvu2498's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    What does that have to do with batting order?
    He should see significantly less breaking balls (and fewer pitches out of the zone) hitting in front of JVMVP.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  12. #266
    Dyslexic Taquitos Quatitos's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    What does that have to do with batting order?
    Nothing, that was exactly the point, since you were worried that his improvements were only from his spot in the batting order.

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I would be very worried if Jay's productivity is critically dependent on his spot in the order.
    I meant to say that his productivity might not be solely from his move in the order. I'm sure some of it is, but hopefully he can build up confidence in the approach Dusty is suggesting to him and keeps it up.

  13. #267
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Funny. Never heard anyone say this or saw it in print anywhere until I read your post just now.
    Of course I was exagerrating, but the cement hardening comment was actually made.

  14. #268
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quatitos View Post
    Nothing, that was exactly the point, since you were worried that his improvements were only from his spot in the batting order.
    I wasnt serious. What I was saying was that, if that were true (as some may believe), that would really worry me.

  15. #269
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    FWIW, Fangraphs did a mini-study a month or two ago showing just how many guys broke in at 22 or 23, did well, and just pretty much stayed there. It's hardly a given that Bruce will continue to improve. We just need to appreciate that even an .800 to .850 OPS combined with his defense is still very productive.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  16. #270
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    FWIW, Fangraphs did a mini-study a month or two ago showing just how many guys broke in at 22 or 23, did well, and just pretty much stayed there. It's hardly a given that Bruce will continue to improve. We just need to appreciate that even an .800 to .850 OPS combined with his defense is still very productive.
    Sure thing, but I think it would be fair to be somewhat disappointed if that's where he lands. Especially if it is closer to .800.


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