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Thread: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

  1. #91
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    But why does he have to live to the standards of any other player? Why can't he just be Jay Bruce?

    And not that I'm saying this about Bruce (because I'm confident he'll bust out of this), but there have been plenty, plenty of "can't miss" types that don't live up their lofty expectations. Austin Kearns for example.
    You have good points, Operator. Always have.

    And I admit, I am terrified he is going to be no more than Austin Kearns II at this point with a better attitude and glove.
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  3. #92
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    It is way early to be concerned by the overall performances of guys like Bruce and Volquez. But it isn't too early to be worried about things like not being able to find the plate and looking clueless at the plate in half of your ABs.

    One thing about these two is that they were generally pretty hyped by many posters this offseason. Maybe some wouldn't be as disappointed in their starts if their names weren't found in close proximity to phrases like "top 5 in MVP voting", "TOR starter" and ""breakout season". It doesn't surprise me that some would be so disappointed in their starts.
    Word. Wasn't it Edwin Encarnacion that was always going to break out before? Then, he didn't. Same with Bruce and Volquez. They'll be fine whether they break out or not. I personally don't expect to see any more from either player. If it happens, then halalujah, but if not, they'll do. Bruce's main problem is the curveball and Volquez's is consistency. Someone said in another thread that Volky probably doesn't know where the ball is going when he releases it. That's a little extreme, but that's partially true. When he finally gets his rhythm going, he settles down.

    Either way, it appears this won't be the year either player "breaks out." Or maybe they will. Too soon to tell.
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  4. #93
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    You have good points, Operator. Always have.

    And I admit, I am terrified he is going to be no more than Austin Kearns II at this point with a better attitude and glove.
    I don't think we have to worry about him being a Kearns. His attitude alone I think will help prevent that.

    Honestly, I think your plight comes down to the fact that you picked a streaky hitter to be your favorite player. Bruce does have otherwordly talent, but he may never be the consistent slump-less type like Votto. Dunn was my favorite player for years and his slumps drove me insane. Only thing was I couldn't post on the ORG at the time so I didn't have to deal with the grief you do. :

    Luckily for me, Votto is my current favorite and he's, well.. ya know, perfect. Much easier on my blood pressure. My doctor even told me I could go off of my anxiety meds.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
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  5. #94
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Word. Wasn't it Edwin Encarnacion that was always going to break out before? Then, he didn't. Same with Bruce and Volquez. They'll be fine whether they break out or not. I personally don't expect to see any more from either player. If it happens, then halalujah, but if not, they'll do. Bruce's main problem is the curveball and Volquez's is consistency. Someone said in another thread that Volky probably doesn't know where the ball is going when he releases it. That's a little extreme, but that's partially true. When he finally gets his rhythm going, he settles down.

    Either way, it appears this won't be the year either player "breaks out." Or maybe they will. Too soon to tell.
    The thing about Bruce is - he doesn't have to be a Joey Votto to be a value to this team. His defense alone make him an above average player. One of the stat-gurus will have to come in with the exact figure, but I believe Bruce was good for 3 wins last year. Maybe more.

    The reason Edwin was such a pile of suck was because not only was he anemic for long periods of time at the plate, he was awful, just awful in the field. Bruce doesn't have that problem.
    Last edited by The Operator; 04-10-2011 at 08:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
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  6. #95
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    The thing about Bruce is - he doesn't have to be a Joey Votto to be a value to this team. His defense alone make him an above average player. One of the stat-gurus will have to come in with the exact figure, but I believe Bruce was good for 3 wins last year. Maybe more.

    The reason Edwin was such a pile of suck was because not only was he anemic for long periods of time at the plate, he was awful, just awful in the field. Bruce doesn't have that problem.
    5.3 WAR last year. Braun was 4.2. Just saying.

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    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    5.3 WAR last year. Braun was 4.2. Just saying.
    Even better than I thought. Thanks HB!
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
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  8. #97
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    5.3 WAR last year. Braun was 4.2. Just saying.
    Why WAR is so very flawed. Bruce's UZRs the last three years are -2.4, 9.3 and 20.2. Braun's last 4: -27.7, 2.8, -13.4, -9.8.

    So your hitting WAR is generally consistent from year to year and your fielding is basically a crapshoot. How one can use a single season value versus another is mindboggling.

  9. #98
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    True, but he was a lightning rod from day 1 onward. Every single season he played for The Reds he was criticized by fans and the media - Marty especially.
    Criticized by some. Loved by others. Basically the same as other players throughout the league.

    But I'm not sure that the Reds are really missing the guy at this point. And most posters would have to agree, especially now that defensive metrics are more en vogue and maybe his value wasn't as some thought way back in '08.

  10. #99
    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    True, but he was a lightning rod from day 1 onward. Every single season he played for The Reds he was criticized by fans and the media - Marty especially.
    Exactly. He should have been embraced for the hitter he was but the majority hated him for the hitter he wasn't.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  11. #100
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Dunn is going to hit 500 clean home runs; he's going into the Hall of Fame. Hate him or not, you can't knock that this day in age.
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  12. #101
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    Dunn is going to hit 500 clean home runs; he's going into the Hall of Fame. Hate him or not, you can't knock that this day in age.
    Jim Thome will be his test case. Thome is Dunn with more contact and I've not heard a whisper of steroid allegations against him; I think he'll have only slightly more luck than Edgar Martinez.

    If I were a betting man, I'd say Dunner is going to need to push 600 to have any chance.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #102
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Jim Thome will be his test case. Thome is Dunn with more contact and I've not heard a whisper of steroid allegations against him; I think he'll have only slightly more luck than Edgar Martinez.

    If I were a betting man, I'd say Dunner is going to need to push 600 to have any chance.
    If Thome isn't a lock, well, there's something really wrong with the whole process.

    But, yeah, I agree Dunn is a poor man's (real poor) Thome.

    I love Dunn, but he'll need 600 dingers.
    Last edited by BuckeyeRedleg; 04-10-2011 at 11:58 PM.

  14. #103
    Member forfreelin04's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    To answer the simple question the thread asks: when Bruce stops trying to pull everything. He's pulling off the ball and until he stops; expect him to be inconsistent.

    The best hitters hit the ball where it's pitched and hit very hard. Good hitters hit the ball where it is pitched and consistently back through the box. Average hitters have major flaws but pounce on mistake pitches. Jay is the latter at this point in his career.

  15. #104
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Jim Thome will be his test case. Thome is Dunn with more contact and I've not heard a whisper of steroid allegations against him; I think he'll have only slightly more luck than Edgar Martinez.

    If I were a betting man, I'd say Dunner is going to need to push 600 to have any chance.
    To believe that Thome was absolutely clean is fairly naive.

  16. #105
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: So when is Bruce going to start hitting?

    What I see Bruce doing is the same thing he was doing during his epic slumps of last year. Not recognizing the breaking pitch and just waiving at it. He then is unable to catch up to a mediocre fastball because he is looking for a breaking ball. He is a mess at the plate right now. Jeff Brantly (courtesy of Mark Grace) made mention of how his right shoulder is flying open and he is pulling off every ball. Until he learns to stay with the pitch and drive it to left center I have a feeling he will be prone to these slumps.


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