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Thread: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

  1. #151
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Of course Calvin Johnson by himself hasn't made the Lions a winner (neither will A.J. Green alone make the Bengals a winner), but the Bucs drafting Calvin Johnson clearly would have made them a better team than drafting Gaines Adams.

    I agree with your last point, though - better to have the infrastructure in place, at which point positions like WR can be filled fairly easily. Maybe not with superstars, but with players like a Garcon, Collie, Branch (in his prime), Welker, etc. As I mentioned, I wasn't thrilled about any of the players the Bengals had to choose from at four, but I'm really glad they didn't reach for a QB and think Green was the best choice of the available options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I don't disagree that you can find extremely talented WRs at the very top of the draft. The one you mentioned -- Calvin Johnson -- was undoubtedly a better pick than Gaines Adams, but what has his selection netted the Lions?

    There's no hard and fast rule to any of this, but it seems overwhelmingly the case that drafting a top-flight WR doesn't benefit a franchise over the long haul -- especially when there are other needs on a team. Better to wait and draft a WR after other pieces are in place (as Wayne and Holmes were) or utilize the late rounds and FA market to fill the position.

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  3. #152
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    With the exception of quarterbacks, drafting a top-flight anything doesn't benefit the franchise over the long haul in the absence of plenty of company. WR is not necessarily where I'd start, all things being equal, but when the team needs as much as the Bengals need, it's more important that they hit on quality than on a specific position.
    I completely agree with this, too.

  4. #153
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat13 View Post
    While I would rather draft a big fella in the top 5, just who on the board deserved to go that high? And trying to hit the FA market at WR hasn't exactly paid dividends for the Bengals the last two years.
    Exactly - we already know the Bengals don't like to move up or down in the draft very often, so knowing they were going to stay at #4, given who was available, who should they have picked that fits that mold?

  5. #154
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat13 View Post
    While I would rather draft a big fella in the top 5, just who on the board deserved to go that high? And trying to hit the FA market at WR hasn't exactly paid dividends for the Bengals the last two years.
    TO was incredibly productive for the Bengals -- Bryant was a medical case that even I could see just by watching his Tampa film. The Bengals lack of anything resembling a competent scouting and medical department doesn't change the fact that good WRs hit FA every year.

    That's really my biggest point with taking a WR with a #4 pick. You can use the pick on any number of other positons -- some of which are difficult to fill in late rounds -- and build a very good WR corps from mid-round guys like Marques Colston, Mike Wallace, Wes Welker, Jordan Shipley, Mike Williams (TB), and Pierre Garcon.
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  6. #155
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    TO was incredibly productive for the Bengals -- Bryant was a medical case that even I could see just by watching his Tampa film. The Bengals lack of anything resembling a competent scouting and medical department doesn't change the fact that good WRs hit FA every year.

    That's really my biggest point with taking a WR with a #4 pick. You can use the pick on any number of other positons -- some of which are difficult to fill in late rounds -- and build a very good WR corps from mid-round guys like Marques Colston, Mike Wallace, Wes Welker, Jordan Shipley, Mike Williams (TB), and Pierre Garcon.
    I agree with this for the most part, though you notably left off Laveranues Coles (big WR bust in free agency). I know you're not a Bengals fan, but given their massive team needs and who was available at four, who would you have taken?

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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss-Hog View Post
    I agree with this for the most part, though you notably left off Laveranues Coles (big WR bust in free agency). I know you're not a Bengals fan, but given their massive team needs and who was available at four, who would you have taken?
    Seeing how Atlanta was trying to trade up, I would have gladly taken their picks and used our first pick on a offensive tackle, which amazingly enough might be our weakest position even with Carson Palmer gone.
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxilon View Post
    Seeing how Atlanta was trying to trade up, I would have gladly taken their picks and used our first pick on a offensive tackle, which amazingly enough might be our weakest position even with Carson Palmer gone.
    What OT interested you at #27?

    Any word on whether Carson or Chad are allowed to be traded today?

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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2...ory?id=6449377

    Looks like they tried to make a deal with Green Bay to get Dalton.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they do it with New England to move past Buffalo.
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  10. #159
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    If you read that whole article they don't like any of the picks. It was the most negative sentiment on the NFL draft that I have read.
    They liked the Giants pick
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxilon View Post
    Seeing how Atlanta was trying to trade up, I would have gladly taken their picks and used our first pick on a offensive tackle, which amazingly enough might be our weakest position even with Carson Palmer gone.
    I think it's a mistake to say that Atlanta would have offered the Bengals the same deal they offered the Browns.
    As I understand most analysis said there were two top Wide Receivers, and then a pretty significant drop off. Even though Atlanta would have had their pick of the receivers if they traded with the Bengals, they always had a fall back option.

    Once the Bengals drafted Green, ATL was put in a position of having to give up more because they had no leverage. Everyone in the world knew they wanted one of these two guys, and Green was already gone.
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  12. #161
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    They liked the Giants pick
    They actually liked several of them (including the Redskins' - yay!), so I'm not really getting the "most negative" vibe.
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  13. #162
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    That's really my biggest point with taking a WR with a #4 pick. You can use the pick on any number of other positons -- some of which are difficult to fill in late rounds -- and build a very good WR corps from mid-round guys like Marques Colston, Mike Wallace, Wes Welker, Jordan Shipley, Mike Williams (TB), and Pierre Garcon.
    For every single mid-round WR you listed, I bet I could go back and find at least two or three WRs drafted around them that didn't pan out. For every Desean Jackson there's a Jerome Simpson and a Limas Sweed.

    The '07 Giants had the best defensive line of the last few years. They had zero first round draft picks on that defensive line and Mathias Kiwanuka at pick #32 was the highest draftee on that entire starting front 7. The Patriots led the league in scoring last year with an offensive line that started one first rounder (also pick #32) and two guys that weren't drafted. Good players at any position can be found in the mid-rounds, but it is much tougher to find them and the success rate of mid-round picks is much, much lower than a top 5 pick. It's just that when the top-5 guy gets more pub when he doesn't pan out.

  14. #163
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Mallet would be such a perfect fit for the Bengals its not even funny.... train wreck...meet conductor....
    Never trust a QB with chinstrap facial hair (which he may or may not still have). Shows poor judgment.

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  15. #164
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I think it's a mistake to say that Atlanta would have offered the Bengals the same deal they offered the Browns.
    As I understand most analysis said there were two top Wide Receivers, and then a pretty significant drop off. Even though Atlanta would have had their pick of the receivers if they traded with the Bengals, they always had a fall back option.

    Once the Bengals drafted Green, ATL was put in a position of having to give up more because they had no leverage. Everyone in the world knew they wanted one of these two guys, and Green was already gone.
    So what exactly are you saying? The Falcons could have gotten the #4 overall pick for less than the #6 overall pick. I understand your reasoning but I don't agree with it personally. There's a chart with a slotted value for every pick that each team uses. The #4 overall pick is going to cost more than the #6 overall pick 100/100 times.
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    Re: 2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxilon View Post
    So what exactly are you saying? The Falcons could have gotten the #4 overall pick for less than the #6 overall pick. I understand your reasoning but I don't agree with it personally. There's a chart with a slotted value for every pick that each team uses. The #4 overall pick is going to cost more than the #6 overall pick 100/100 times.
    Supply and demand. The Falcons could play the Bengals against the Browns. Knowing that if something fell through with the Bengals they could go to the Browns. Green and Jones were the highest rated WRs since Calvin Johnson came out. They are premium players. Once Green was off the board, Cleveland had more leverage to make a deal.

    I will take Green, over the sack of crap the Browns will likely draft. For the record I hate the Phil Taylor pick. 3-4 nose tackle, playing in a 4-3 scheme. I think that weight will wear him down with injuries as well.
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