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Thread: 2012 Payroll

  1. #1
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    2012 Payroll

    Interesting article on MLBTR here:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/0...#disqus_thread

    I am assuming that Gomes and Hernandez do not get re-signed, unless it's for the league minimum (in Gomes' case). I assume Hernandez will be free to go with Mesoraco on the horizon.

    According to that piece, if you account for $10MM in arbitration raises for Bailey, Volquez, Janish, Masset, and Bray, and pickup BP's option, the Reds would have $7MM to play with before they get back to this year's payroll. If you add a 5% bump in payroll, the Reds should have about $10MM to play with next offseason. Any thoughts on what they should use that $10MM toward?

    I think they should give the three-headed monster of Alonso, Sappelt, and Heisey a shot in LF. If that's the case, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to give Reyes a shot down the stretch this year and on an option next year.

    I was never a fan of BP in the cleanup spot, but clearly something has to be done to fix this lineup, especially until Bruce starts playing to his potential and/or Rolen comes back to play everyday. I worry that as time goes on, Rolen may be less and less reliable and we will need a backup plan. The lineup below could be considered a pretty good backup plan:

    SS Reyes
    CF Stubbs
    1B Votto
    2B Phillips
    RF Bruce
    LF Sappelt/Alonso/Heisey
    C Hernanigan/Mesoraco
    3B Francisco/Frazier/Cairo/Janish (assuming Rolen is out)

    Another out of the box idea, if things get really bad with Rolen's health over the next couple months, could be pursuing David Wright, who is under contract through 2013. Would certainly cost a lot in terms of prospects, but would fit perfectly with our window of contention over the next 2.5 years. In their state of disarray, the Mets are likely going to consider offers for both Reyes and Wright. Reyes will come cheaper than Wright, but I'm sure a package headlined by Leake and Grandal could at least get the Mets' attention for Wright. Obviously we would have to wait to see how things play out with Rolen's health before considering a move like that, but just imagine:

    CF Stubbs
    2B Phillips
    1B Votto
    3B Wright
    RF Bruce
    LF Sappelt/Alonso/Heisey
    C Mesoranigan
    SS Janish
    Go BLUE!!!

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  3. #2
    Member OesterPoster's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    Funny, I've been reading up on all the David Wright rumors and checking out Mets' message boards. They seem to think Wright is destined to become an Angel this year, and they'll get Trout back in return. Wright has an option of $16 million for 2013, with a buyout of $1 million. Under contract for 2012 for $15 million. It'd take quite a haul of prospects to get the Mets to eat some of that salary, IMO. His offensive numbers at GABP would be pretty awesome, I think.

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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    With Rolen on books for another year, I doubt seriously the Reds take on Wright's contract overlapping.

    Using some of the organizational depth (Alonso), I could see them trading for Rolen's heir in the off season. Since the other positions seem to have their present and future starters already at the MLB or AAA levels.
    I have a love-hate relationship with Albert Pujols. Mostly hate.

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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by I(heart)Freel View Post
    With Rolen on books for another year, I doubt seriously the Reds take on Wright's contract overlapping.

    Using some of the organizational depth (Alonso), I could see them trading for Rolen's heir in the off season. Since the other positions seem to have their present and future starters already at the MLB or AAA levels.
    I've actually wondered, again only if things continue to deteriorate with Rolen's health, about offering Rolen a coaching job with the implied deal that he would be Dusty's eventual successor. It might be a creative solution to entice him to retire and possibly forego some of his future salary, yet keep him with the team and incentivize him to prolong his (new) career with the Reds.

    The Mets have two of the most attractive (available) veterans the Reds might want to trade for in the next nine months. Unfortunately, however, they have no use for Alonso with Ike Davis in tow. Between Leake, Grandal, Sappelt, and others, I still think we could pique their interest.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I've actually wondered, again only if things continue to deteriorate with Rolen's health, about offering Rolen a coaching job with the implied deal that he would be Dusty's eventual successor. It might be a creative solution to entice him to retire and possibly forego some of his future salary, yet keep him with the team and incentivize him to prolong his (new) career with the Reds.

    The Mets have two of the most attractive (available) veterans the Reds might want to trade for in the next nine months. Unfortunately, however, they have no use for Alonso with Ike Davis in tow. Between Leake, Grandal, Sappelt, and others, I still think we could pique their interest.
    I would imagine that Rolen will stick through until the end of his contract. I also think that as long as he wants to play, and can play at a high level when healthy, Walt will keep him around. He won't get the kind of money that he has in the past, but I wouldn't mind keeping him around even if he were to play 80 games at a reduced rate.

    The issue I see with him managing is that he has made over $100M during his career. At what point do you just hang it up and quite dealing with the MLB baseball season? How much money must they pay you to manage (I think playing is completely different) in order to be away from your family from February until October? I think this will be an issue with the current MLB players when it comes to managing.

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    Dyslexic Taquitos Quatitos's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I would imagine that Rolen will stick through until the end of his contract. I also think that as long as he wants to play, and can play at a high level when healthy, Walt will keep him around. He won't get the kind of money that he has in the past, but I wouldn't mind keeping him around even if he were to play 80 games at a reduced rate.

    The issue I see with him managing is that he has made over $100M during his career. At what point do you just hang it up and quite dealing with the MLB baseball season? How much money must they pay you to manage (I think playing is completely different) in order to be away from your family from February until October? I think this will be an issue with the current MLB players when it comes to managing.
    I think that you raise a good point about Rolen and his family, since one of the reasons he is on the Reds is to be closer to his family. I think there is a big chance, when he does hang it up, that he will step back from the game and spend some time with his children. When you consider how much money he has made, it won't be what will bring him back, and I think he will not get a position that requires him to travel much until after his children have grown up.

    That said, it would be nice to have Rolen stick around with the team during spring training and maybe as a part time coach during the season if he was willing. To refresh some people's memory, it wasn't just Edmonds that helped Bruce with his swing last year. http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86369

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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    Code:
    Ryan Hanigan	 1.20
    Joey Votto	11.00
    BrandonPhillips	11.25
    Scott Rolen	 8.20
    Paul Janish	arbitration
    Fred Lewis	arbitration
    Drew Stubbs	 0.50
    Jay Bruce	 5.00
    Devin Mesoraco	 0.40
    Zack Cozart	 0.40
    Todd Frazier	 0.41
    Chris Heisey	 0.45
    Miguel Cairo	 1.00
    Bronson Arroyo	 7.00
    Aroldis Chapman	 3.50
    Johnny Cueto	 5.40
    Edinson Volquez	arbitration
    Travis Wood	 0.45
    Nick Masset	arbitration
    Homer Bailey	arbitration
    Jose Arredondo	arbitration
    Jordan Smith	 0.42
    Bill Bray	arbitration
    Logan Ondrusek	 0.45
    Mike Leake	 0.44
    		57.47
    
    Edinson Volquez	 2.40
    Bill Bray	 1.00
    Paul Janish	 1.00
    Fred Lewis	 1.40
    Nick Masset	 2.35
    Homer Bailey	 1.50
    Jose Arredondo	 1.00
    		10.65
    		68.12
    
    MISCELLANEOUS
    CoCo Cordero	 1.00
    Yonder Alonso	 1.00
    Yasmani Grandal	 0.39
    		 2.39
    		70.51
    
    Jared Burton (will be non-tendered)
    Carlos Fisher (out of options candidate)
    Juan Francisco (out of options candidate)
    Jonny Gomes
    Jeremy Hermida
    Ramon Hernandez
    Daniel Ray Herrera (out of options candidate)
    Sam LeCure (out of options candidate)
    Matt Maloney (out of options candidate)
    Edgar Renteria
    Daryl Thompson (out of options candidate)
    Dontrelle Willis (not on the 40-man roster)
    Last edited by camisadelgolf; 04-25-2011 at 12:30 PM.

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    Not to take this subject off track but does anyone think the Reds will try to re-sign Cordero for next season and/or beyond given the uncertainty of that role for the future?
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Not to take this subject off track but does anyone think the Reds will try to re-sign Cordero for next season and/or beyond given the uncertainty of that role for the future?
    Unless he is willing to take a huge discount, I can't see it happening.

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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    I would love to go after Wright with our extra money and extra minor league talent, and I think we have the talent to get a deal done. Can we ask Rolen to play a different role on this team if we bring Wright in? Could Rolen play about 100 games in 1B, 3B and LF with Wright as your primary 3B?

    Wright, Votto, Bruce, Stubbs, Chapman, Cueto, Volquez is an amazing core and worth rolling the dice on.

  12. #11
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    I think we need a special forum for fantasy land trade ideas, where we can add the name David Wright to the long list of names been thrown around RZ over the years. I swear I've seen Hanley, ManRam (near prime), Reyes, Kemp, Greinke, etc.

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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I think we need a special forum for fantasy land trade ideas, where we can add the name David Wright to the long list of names been thrown around RZ over the years. I swear I've seen Hanley, ManRam (near prime), Reyes, Kemp, Greinke, etc.
    Forgot Bedard.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Not to take this subject off track but does anyone think the Reds will try to re-sign Cordero for next season and/or beyond given the uncertainty of that role for the future?
    I think the 2012 closer role is Nick Masset's to lose. WIth the arms we have, there's just no justification for paying millions -- even 50% of his current salary -- to a guy who is just run-of-the-mill at this point. For $2-3M, sure. But he'll definitely get more elsewhere.

    As for the rest of the lineup, I think we should be wary of trying build a lineup around set roles -- that's how you overpay and underperform. In LF, I'm not sure what Chris Heisey has to do to get a full-time look. An .800 OPS and the best defending LF this side of Carl Crawford (he of the .776 career OPS) is a very productive player. And Sappelt is basically in the same mold. I know his baserunning leaves a lot to be desired, but if his bat and glove both play and the need is there, I don't see us spending millions so that Sappelt can continue to hone his baserunning skills in Louisville.

    At 3B, it would be nice to have somebody more reliable, but I don't think Rolen is going anywhere, except for the DL. Perhaps we can flip some prospects for somebody else's 3B prospect who can serve in a "health platoon" with him at no additional salary cost.

    I know people feel strongly about having a lineup that feels right aesthetically, with each slot filled by somebody approximating the platonic ideal. But at the end of the day, how many runs you score is almost entirely a function of the overall effectiveness of the hitters who get PA, regardless of order or the specific composition of how they generate those runs. While you always want to improve at the margins, this team's offensive success depends on the continuing contributions of the players who currently comprise it the bulk of it.

    I'd probably target Jose Reyes and look for a lineup like this:

    Reyes
    Rolen
    Votto
    Phillips
    Bruce
    Stubbs
    Heisey/Sappelt
    Mesoranigan

    As much as I like to whine about batting order, you can pretty much put those guys in any order and they'll produce. No easy outs. Speed and power. Great defense at every single position. I like it.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 04-26-2011 at 01:46 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I think the 2012 closer role is Nick Masset's to lose. WIth the arms we have, there's just no justification for paying millions -- even 50% of his current salary -- to a guy who is just run-of-the-mill at this point. For $2-3M, sure. But he'll definitely get more elsewhere.
    Masset has been brutal in April over the past few season. It appears as it takes him some time to get going in the season and that could be troublesome if he is anointed closer next season.

    Also if Coco is let go, which I would imagine he would be, that would take one live arm out of the pen. You also have Chapman hopefully being pushed towards the rotation next season which takes out another live arm. So in essence you lose your best 2 bullpen arms heading into next season with Ondrusek being the only one I see with + stuff. They will need to add at least one more live arm into the pen if Cordero leaves. I don't know much about their minor league system right now bit it doesn't appear as if they have that.

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    Re: 2012 Payroll

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    I think we need a special forum for fantasy land trade ideas, where we can add the name David Wright to the long list of names been thrown around RZ over the years. I swear I've seen Hanley, ManRam (near prime), Reyes, Kemp, Greinke, etc.


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