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Thread: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

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  1. #1
    Blowing away bad memories Redsfan320's Avatar
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    Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Saw it on the ticker on MLBN, said it came from Dusty.

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    I'd rather listen to Kelch read the phone book than suffer through Thom Brennaman's attempt to make every instance on the field the most important event since the discovery of manned space flight. -westofyou

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    johnfayman

    Baker confirms Cueto is starting Sunday. Leake will "probably" go to the bullpen. #reds

    WHY WHY WHY are they waisting time with him in the bullpen? Just send him down.

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    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    johnfayman

    Baker confirms Cueto is starting Sunday. Leake will "probably" go to the bullpen. #reds

    WHY WHY WHY are they waisting time with him in the bullpen? Just send him down.
    Because he's the best pitcher the Reds have for that role. They are trying to win a pennant ya know...
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Crazy idea.

    Leake as next year's closer.

    I personally like laid back closers, and Leake is definitely laid back. He also has the stuff for a closer, lots of movement, can get swings and misses when he wants to, and ground balls for double plays when he wants to. I could see him as an Eck, Quiz, Dave Smith, Franco, Graves kinda closer.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Name me a closer who is right handed and struggles to throw 90.

    Good luck.

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    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Name me a closer who is right handed and struggles to throw 90.

    Good luck.
    Leake doesn't struggle to throw 90. He averages 90 on his fastball right now as a starter. If he's only going an inning at a time, he'll probably average 92-3 and hit 95 every now and again.

    None of the guys I listed threw significantly harder than Leake does.
    Last edited by 757690; 05-04-2011 at 03:37 AM.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Personaly, I think Leake should go to AAA and start. He's just a kid who isn't ready who had a fluke couple of months when no one in the league knew anything about him. Since then he really struggles to get through a line-up 3 times.

    From that perspective, he might be OK as a long reliever. Going into yesterday's game, Leake had given up 15 runs, with 11 coming in the 4th and 5th inning. Last night's meltdown was in the 4th. He's good for one, maybe two times through the order and then he gets rocked. He'd probably do a decent job for 2 or 3 innings at a time, but I think a season or two in the minors learning his way to work through a line-up multiple times (while building innings and stamina) could make him a pretty decent middle to back end starter. He just isn't ready for that now in spite of how many may have been fooled by April and May of 2010.

    IMO, the Reds have guys who can play the long relief role who wouldn't be giving up something more by wasting away there. I think Sam Lecure would do just fine as the long reliever and we wouldn't really be stunting his potential as a mid rotation starter to do that. Leake has a better future than the typical long man. I'd say shine him up at AAA for use down the road or as a significant trade piece for a big fish.

    Some interesting numbers on Leake:

    This season he's allowed 22 runs. That breaks down as 1 run in the 1st, 3 runs in the second, 1 run in the third, 9 runs in the fourth and 8 runs in the 5th. 17 of the 22 runs he's allowed have come in the 4th and 5th innings.

    Prior to last night, 8 of the 15 runs he'd allowed came on the 3rd time through the order. He looks good for a while and then gets rocked. Last year, it took a couple of months for teams to figure him out. Now they figure him out in the 2nd or 3rd at bat.


    He's got potential, he's just not a viable major league starting pitcher right now. He'd be fine in he pen, but the Reds have other guys for that. Let him go down and work on being all he can be.
    Last edited by mth123; 05-04-2011 at 06:23 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    This season he's allowed 22 runs. That breaks down as 1 run in the 1st, 3 runs in the second, 1 run in the third, 9 runs in the fourth and 8 runs in the 5th. 17 of the 22 runs he's allowed have come in the 4th and 5th innings.

    Prior to last night, 8 of the 15 runs he'd allowed came on the 3rd time through the order. He looks good for a while and then gets rocked. Last year, it took a couple of months for teams to figure him out. Now they figure him out in the 2nd or 3rd at bat.
    Those are skewed greatly by two innings. He had no issue in the 2nd and 3rd times through the order in 4 of 6 starts.

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Those are skewed greatly by two innings. He had no issue in the 2nd and 3rd times through the order in 4 of 6 starts.
    Stop it. He's been useless since June of last season and this is what you come up with? It's time for him to go to AAA.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Those are skewed greatly by two innings. He had no issue in the 2nd and 3rd times through the order in 4 of 6 starts.
    In Leake's young career he his ERA splits

    Innings 1-3 (84 IP) 2.46
    Innings 4-6 (77 IP) 5.96
    Innings 7-9 (11.1 IP) 10.03

    His OPS Against Splits?

    Pitches 1-25 .754
    Pitches 26-50 .790
    Pitches 51-75 .737
    Pitches 76-100 .878
    Pitches 101 + 1.317

    He certainly does have issues getting through the order 3 times. Based on pitches 26-50 spiking a bit, I'm guessing has some issues against the tougher part of the order the second time through as well. Sounds like Dusty agrees.

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...k_cin&c_id=cin

    If they insist on Leake staying in the majors, long relief is the right call. Personally, I'd prefer he start in AAA and go through line-ups three times with some success and stretch the innngs, but the Red's rotation isn't the right sot for him.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  11. #11
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Leake doesn't struggle to throw 90. He averages 90 on his fastball right now as a starter. If he's only going an inning at a time, he'll probably average 92-3 and hit 95 every now and again.

    None of the guys I listed threw significantly harder than Leake does.

    Leake averages 87.9 MPH per fastball. So no, he does not average 90.

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    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Leake averages 87.9 MPH per fastball. So no, he does not average 90.
    On his four seamer, which I will admit he doesn't throw that often, he averages 89.6 MPH.

    Mike Leake Pitchfx

    Regardless, this shows that he doesn't struggle to throw 90, he hits above it when he wants to, he just chooses not to most of the time.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Leake averages 87.9 MPH per fastball. So no, he does not average 90.
    Averaging under 88 on your fastball=struggles to throw 90. And that's the second time I've seen somebody say he could hit 95 on this board.

    Mike Leake has never and will never throw 95 in his life.

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    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Averaging under 88 on your fastball=struggles to throw 90. And that's the second time I've seen somebody say he could hit 95 on this board.

    Mike Leake has never and will never throw 95 in his life.
    He's hit 93 a few times. Moving to the pen usually adds a few MPH to a pitchers fastball.

    That 87.9 MPH is for his two seam fastball, which is more of a cutter. When he throws his four seamer, he averages 89.9 and has hit 92-3 often..

    And averaging 88 MPH means that you can and do hit 90 pretty often.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Averaging under 88 on your fastball=struggles to throw 90. And that's the second time I've seen somebody say he could hit 95 on this board.

    Mike Leake has never and will never throw 95 in his life.
    This is a serious question, have you ever been a pitcher? Even high school? As a pitcher, you NEVER throw it with everything you've got. If you do that, you invariably toss all your mechanics right out the window. Mike has gotten it to 92 or 93 in a game before. And that's STILL throwing the ball under control. Every pitcher, not just Leake, but EVERY pitcher can throw harder than what the radar guns register for them regularly if they throw it all out. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if Chapman could reach back and hit 108-110. But doing that you risk injuring yourself and you've got little to no idea where the ball is going to go. So when somebody says he could reach 95...it's not a stretch. But if they say he'll throw it with command...that I won't buy. Leake's velocity sits where it does because he's found that he has much better command and hits his spots more consistently at that speed. Simple as that.


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