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Thread: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

  1. #31
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Useless. Look at his stats going back to June, and he's been useless.

    The Reds are 4-2 when Volquez starts and you've been trying to send him to AAA for a month now.
    I'm fairly certain that I've never said that EV needs to go to AAA.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Averaging under 88 on your fastball=struggles to throw 90. And that's the second time I've seen somebody say he could hit 95 on this board.

    Mike Leake has never and will never throw 95 in his life.
    He's hit 93 a few times. Moving to the pen usually adds a few MPH to a pitchers fastball.

    That 87.9 MPH is for his two seam fastball, which is more of a cutter. When he throws his four seamer, he averages 89.9 and has hit 92-3 often..

    And averaging 88 MPH means that you can and do hit 90 pretty often.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  4. #33
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Useless. Look at his stats going back to June, and he's been useless.

    The Reds are 4-2 when Volquez starts and you've been trying to send him to AAA for a month now.
    Since June of last year, Leake has given up 3 runs or less in 12 starts and 4 runs or more in 8 starts..
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  5. #34
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Yeah when he was 85 years old.
    Hoffman's career was never defined by a high velocity fastball. He was injured in 1994 and his velocity was, at best, in the 90 mph range. His entire career was built on an 88 mph fastball and a filthy changeup.

    FWIW, I'm against the Leake as closer idea.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  6. #35
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Averaging under 88 on your fastball=struggles to throw 90. And that's the second time I've seen somebody say he could hit 95 on this board.

    Mike Leake has never and will never throw 95 in his life.
    This is a serious question, have you ever been a pitcher? Even high school? As a pitcher, you NEVER throw it with everything you've got. If you do that, you invariably toss all your mechanics right out the window. Mike has gotten it to 92 or 93 in a game before. And that's STILL throwing the ball under control. Every pitcher, not just Leake, but EVERY pitcher can throw harder than what the radar guns register for them regularly if they throw it all out. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if Chapman could reach back and hit 108-110. But doing that you risk injuring yourself and you've got little to no idea where the ball is going to go. So when somebody says he could reach 95...it's not a stretch. But if they say he'll throw it with command...that I won't buy. Leake's velocity sits where it does because he's found that he has much better command and hits his spots more consistently at that speed. Simple as that.

  7. #36
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    This is a serious question, have you ever been a pitcher? Even high school? As a pitcher, you NEVER throw it with everything you've got. If you do that, you invariably toss all your mechanics right out the window. Mike has gotten it to 92 or 93 in a game before. And that's STILL throwing the ball under control. Every pitcher, not just Leake, but EVERY pitcher can throw harder than what the radar guns register for them regularly if they throw it all out. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if Chapman could reach back and hit 108-110. But doing that you risk injuring yourself and you've got little to no idea where the ball is going to go. So when somebody says he could reach 95...it's not a stretch. But if they say he'll throw it with command...that I won't buy. Leake's velocity sits where it does because he's found that he has much better command and hits his spots more consistently at that speed. Simple as that.
    Mike Leake hitting 95 is more than a stretch. It's impossible.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  8. #37
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Mike Leake hitting 95 is more than a stretch. It's impossible.
    LOL. Sorry, but I highly doubt that. You seriously think that he can't rear back and fire one without caring where it goes and not get 2-3 more mph's on a pitch?!? I'd not only say it's probable, I'd almost guarantee it. Same goes for most ALL pitchers. (not that specific speed, but getting an extra 3-5 mph on an all-out pitch)

    Regardless, this is all a moot point anyway. I certainly don't want to see him attempt it.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 05-04-2011 at 04:51 PM.

  9. #38
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    All Reds starters have a xFIP lower than their actual ERA, and some have significantly lower xFIP's than ERA (Wood in particular).
    I expect Wood to get better too, but thus far,
    He's had 3 horrible starts
    One "ok" start (6.1 IP 3ER)
    3 great starts

    I can see them leaving Wood in the rotation to have a lefty, but honestly, based on pure performance this year, not a whole lot seperating Leake and Wood to this point. Leake has been slightly better, but I know there's more than just year to day performance involved in this decision, and I'm not complaining.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  10. #39
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Useless. Look at his stats going back to June, and he's been useless.

    The Reds are 4-2 when Volquez starts and you've been trying to send him to AAA for a month now.
    This year, Leake has been better.
    2 horrible starts
    4 good to outstanding starts

    Volquez has yet to make it to the 7 IP mark in his starts.
    He's gone 6 IP twice, and his other 4 starts are less than 6 IP.
    He's had 4 horrible starts.
    1 good start (6 IP, 2 ER)
    1 "ok" start.. He only gave up 1 ER, but he only lasted 5 IP.. I can't remember why he was pulled, but he also had 5 BB in that game.

    Leake is doing better at run prevention and throwing strikes.

    Leake was on the DL last year, much like Volquez, so shouldn't he be given a fresh start, just as Volquez was? I know the Reds never fully disclosed what was wrong with Leake last year (IIRC), but the guy has been getting result so far.. Will he become ineffective in the 2nd half again? Maybe...

    But if you want to talk about the most useless starting pitcher this year, it's clearly Volquez.
    Last edited by REDREAD; 05-04-2011 at 05:00 PM.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  11. #40
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    This year, Leake has been better.
    2 horrible starts
    4 good to outstanding starts

    Volquez has yet to make it to the 7 IP mark in his starts.
    He's gone 6 IP twice, and his other 4 starts are less than 6 IP.
    He's had 4 horrible starts.
    1 good start (6 IP, 2 ER)
    1 "ok" start.. He only gave up 1 ER, but he only lasted 5 IP.. I can't remember why he was pulled, but he also had 5 BB in that game.

    Leake is doing better at run prevention and throwing strikes.

    Leake was on the DL last year, much like Volquez, so shouldn't he be given a fresh start, just as Volquez was? I know the Reds never fully disclosed what was wrong with Leake last year (IIRC), but the guy has been getting result so far.. Will he become ineffective in the 2nd half again? Maybe...

    But if you want to talk about the most useless starting pitcher this year, it's clearly Volquez.
    I would say it's not anywhere near "clear."
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  12. #41
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    This is a serious question, have you ever been a pitcher? Even high school? As a pitcher, you NEVER throw it with everything you've got. If you do that, you invariably toss all your mechanics right out the window. Mike has gotten it to 92 or 93 in a game before. And that's STILL throwing the ball under control. Every pitcher, not just Leake, but EVERY pitcher can throw harder than what the radar guns register for them regularly if they throw it all out. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if Chapman could reach back and hit 108-110. But doing that you risk injuring yourself and you've got little to no idea where the ball is going to go. So when somebody says he could reach 95...it's not a stretch. But if they say he'll throw it with command...that I won't buy. Leake's velocity sits where it does because he's found that he has much better command and hits his spots more consistently at that speed. Simple as that.
    You have nothing to back up what you're saying. I'm sorry, you just don't. When Mike Leake hits 95 one time and you can back up what you're saying, let me know.

    It's never going to happen though.

  13. #42
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    This year, Leake has been better.
    2 horrible starts
    4 good to outstanding starts

    Volquez has yet to make it to the 7 IP mark in his starts.
    He's gone 6 IP twice, and his other 4 starts are less than 6 IP.
    He's had 4 horrible starts.
    1 good start (6 IP, 2 ER)
    1 "ok" start.. He only gave up 1 ER, but he only lasted 5 IP.. I can't remember why he was pulled, but he also had 5 BB in that game.

    Leake is doing better at run prevention and throwing strikes.

    Leake was on the DL last year, much like Volquez, so shouldn't he be given a fresh start, just as Volquez was? I know the Reds never fully disclosed what was wrong with Leake last year (IIRC), but the guy has been getting result so far.. Will he become ineffective in the 2nd half again? Maybe...

    But if you want to talk about the most useless starting pitcher this year, it's clearly Volquez.
    Leake went on the DL because he was awful. He didn't have an injury. He hit a supposed wall.

    Volquez, meanwhile, actually blew out his arm. There's kind of a big difference there.

    People have to stop cherry picking stats. His ERA this year is 5.77. That's awful. His last three months last year were awful. I'm not sure why people are so against sending him to AAA. It's not like I'm saying cut him. Let him go down to AAA and work on things. I'm sure somebody will go down and he'll be needed again this year. Sending him to the pen doesn't help him or the Reds, though.
    Last edited by reds44; 05-04-2011 at 05:47 PM.

  14. #43
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    Mike Leake hitting 95 is more than a stretch. It's impossible.
    It's actually almost impossible that he can't.

    Adding two MPH to your top fastball isn't hard to due, in fact nearly every starter turned reliever has done more than that.

    Chapman, for example, averages 99 MPH, and we know that has added 6 MPH to that at least once. As a starter he was averaging closer to 95 MPH.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  15. #44
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    You have nothing to back up what you're saying. I'm sorry, you just don't. When Mike Leake hits 95 one time and you can back up what you're saying, let me know.

    It's never going to happen though.
    Every pitching coach in the history of baseball backs up what he said. Seriously, ask anyone who has ever pitched.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  16. #45
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    He can't hit 95. When he does, somebody lets me know.


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