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Thread: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

  1. #46
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    You have nothing to back up what you're saying. I'm sorry, you just don't. When Mike Leake hits 95 one time and you can back up what you're saying, let me know.

    It's never going to happen though.
    If you're asking me if I have proof that he can do that...the answer is obviously no. We were speaking theoretically though. Common sense says he can. The main point I was making, the one you haven't addressed, is based on the question of whether you agree or disagree that pitchers don't throw with EVERYTHING they've got. Are you under the simple assumption that MLB pitchers throw their fastball as hard as they possibly can? Once you answer that question...the rest of the discussion is basically solved. If you think they DO throw it with everything they've got, then we're done. We don't agree, but there's no point we can debate. If you think that they throw it as hard as they can while still maintaining control, then we can talk.

    And I agree...we'll never see him throw 95. At least not without him going on the DL almost immediately afterwards. The question was CAN he....not WILL he.

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  3. #47
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Every pitching coach in the history of baseball backs up what he said. Seriously, ask anyone who has ever pitched.
    This.

    If you're asking for visual proof of him doing it, you're going to be waiting forever. He's not GOING to throw it 95. But "could he?" is the question. And common sense says certainly if you've ever pitched or spoken to someone who has.

  4. #48
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    If you have to blow you arm out by throwing 95, you can't throw 95.

    And he can't throw 95.

  5. #49
    Oy Vey! Red in Chicago's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    If you have to blow you arm out by throwing 95, you can't throw 95.

    And he can't throw 95.
    OMG - Please tell us yet one more time in this thread that he can't throw 95.

  6. #50
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Does anyone know if Leake can throw 95?

    If not, can he pay $11.95?

    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  7. #51
    Member 11larkin11's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    So, about Cueto....
    Domo Arigato, Here Comes Joey Votto

    ---TRF

    "I do what I want to do and say what I want to say."

    --Bronson Arroyo

  8. #52
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Red in Chicago View Post
    OMG - Please tell us yet one more time in this thread that he can't throw 95.
    He can't throw 95.

    And I'm honestly afraid they are bringing Cueto back a start to soon. Don't get me wrong, they NEED him back, but I'm not sure he's ready yet.

  9. #53
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan320 View Post
    Probably true, but I don't feel like waiting around for him to do so while costing the team wins? So maybe start looking for trade partners...?
    THe facts are:

    The Reds have won 4 of his 6 starts, so he hasn't been "costing us wins" regardless of his pitching.

    In 3 of his last 4 starts, he's given up 1, 2 and 3 runs. So, it would be a strange time to dump him, when he's trending upwards.

    His xFIP is 4.12 this year. His HR/FB rate is more than double his normal rate.

    He has been a strike out, ground ball machine this year. He has also been a walk machine this year, at a much greater rate than his career average.

    Trading him right now makes zero sense.

  10. #54
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    If you have to blow you arm out by throwing 95, you can't throw 95.

    And he can't throw 95.
    Still not answering the question. Fine. Keep spouting the same thing over and over again. Maybe it'll become true eventually.

    I'm out.

  11. #55
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Every pitching coach in the history of baseball backs up what he said. Seriously, ask anyone who has ever pitched.
    I doubt every pitching coach in history has debated something this insanely idiotic. I'm only adding to it so I'll stop now.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  12. #56
    SERP deep cover ops WebScorpion's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    I watched both Bailey and Cueto pitch in Louisville. Bailey was looking good for quite some time, but he just wasn't recovering quick enough so they gave him extra days between starts. I don't think he was rushed...in fact, I think the opposite was true: He was coddled. I'm not really sure what to say about Cueto...something doesn't look right, but I can't put my finger on it. He hasn't been very efficient or effective. He's getting behind the hitters often and he's not working as low in the strike zone as he did in 2010. Other than that, he looks strong and relaxed out there. I'm not sure if he's being rushed or not...I guess we'll see on Sunday. Can he be worse than we've been getting from Volquez, Wood, and Leake? I doubt it, but I hope he can do a bit better.

    "Okay you guys, pair up in threes!" --Yogi Berra

  13. #57
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Leake went on the DL because he was awful. He didn't have an injury. He hit a supposed wall.

    Volquez, meanwhile, actually blew out his arm. There's kind of a big difference there.
    Leake was put on the DL for a shoulder problem. I think it was shoulder fatigue.
    I know some people think that is a phantom injury, but since we have unreliable medical news from the Reds, HIPPA stuff to deal with, we have no idea.. We could start a conspiracy theory that Homer and Cueto weren't really hurt to start the season either, but we are going to take the Reds word for it.


    People have to stop cherry picking stats. His ERA this year is 5.77. That's awful. His last three months last year were awful. I'm not sure why people are so against sending him to AAA. It's not like I'm saying cut him. Let him go down to AAA and work on things. I'm sure somebody will go down and he'll be needed again this year. Sending him to the pen doesn't help him or the Reds, though.


    It's not cherry picking. I listed the number of good and bad starts by each pitcher. I like ERA, but if a pitcher gives up 6 runs or 20 runs in one game, it doesn't make that much of a difference. Arroyo had one year where his ERA was inflated by about 3 nightmare starts. Looking at his ERA that year was misleading in determining the quality of the year he had.
    Before the May 3 start (when I started this discussion), Leake had a 4.40 ERA, second best on the team among starters.

    If you want to use ERA as the hardstick, Leake is still better than Wood (6.21), and only slightly worse than Volquez (5.67)

    Leake has given the team more good starts than either Wood or Volquez, up until this point. Maybe that will change by the end of the year.

    Leake: 4 of 6 QS
    Wood: 3 of 7 QS
    Volquez: 1 of 6 QS.

    Leake has done a better job in this young season. That can not be disputed, IMO.
    Last edited by REDREAD; 05-06-2011 at 11:18 AM. Reason: corrrect mistake
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #58
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Cueto to return and start Sunday @ Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Those are skewed greatly by two innings. He had no issue in the 2nd and 3rd times through the order in 4 of 6 starts.
    In Leake's young career he his ERA splits

    Innings 1-3 (84 IP) 2.46
    Innings 4-6 (77 IP) 5.96
    Innings 7-9 (11.1 IP) 10.03

    His OPS Against Splits?

    Pitches 1-25 .754
    Pitches 26-50 .790
    Pitches 51-75 .737
    Pitches 76-100 .878
    Pitches 101 + 1.317

    He certainly does have issues getting through the order 3 times. Based on pitches 26-50 spiking a bit, I'm guessing has some issues against the tougher part of the order the second time through as well. Sounds like Dusty agrees.

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...k_cin&c_id=cin

    If they insist on Leake staying in the majors, long relief is the right call. Personally, I'd prefer he start in AAA and go through line-ups three times with some success and stretch the innngs, but the Red's rotation isn't the right sot for him.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS


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