Carpenter

[Magdal]

I finally got around to reading that long Carpenter and his kids thread. Surprized to see that the brawl is still so fresh in the minds of fans of both teams.

Just recently the St. Louis fanbase and writers have started to question his attitude and ability. An interesting thing occored last week: a man slid hard into Molina, scoring a big run. On his way back to his dugout, the player paused ever so briefly to see if Yadier was OK. Carpenter went into a rage!

The essence of the outburst was "Get your ass back in the dugout you blankety blank!" And he stomped around out there with unrightful indignation for a bit until he was knocked out of the game.

His frustration is mounting by the start. He is STILL winless on the season. Combined with his sub par pitching he has been getting no run support. By contrast, Mc Clellan, thought to be the 4th starter is 5 and 0 and with mucho run support! Must be driving Carp half crazy.

Like a volcano, I expect him to erupt any game now. It could have happened in that game that I described if that player had confronted Carp. But he seemed to be stunned and a little nervous about it and sheepishly went to the dugout. It may happen on Sunday vs. the Reds.

I was only 1/2 watching that game and can't recall the player or team involved. Maybe someone here can pick me up?

[Swampturkey]

What St. Louis media has picked up on this?? I live in St. Louis, am involved in Cards media groups on twitter and facebook and have not read a single thing about it. I also watch all the Cards programming on Fox Sports Midwest as well as the Sunday night sports shows here. There has been nothing.

I think you're making something out of nothing. During games, Carp is a completely different person. Very competitive, hates to lose, short fuse. He's different when he's not pitching. I'm not going to waste my breath convincing those here as I know it won't do any good, but I'm still wondering where you get your info from...

[Magdal]

Ah, Swamp Turkey to the rescue. Well, if you watch every game how did you miss the incedent I described?

And the buzz I'm talking about on Carp reffers to fan forums, post game conversations between anouncers and the like. NO ESPN coverage of course. The Cards are FAR below their radar. Pujols is having the worst start in the game, and all they can talk about is Jeter.

[lidspinner]

What St. Louis media has picked up on this?? I live in St. Louis, am involved in Cards media groups on twitter and facebook and have not read a single thing about it. I also watch all the Cards programming on Fox Sports Midwest as well as the Sunday night sports shows here. There has been nothing.

I think you're making something out of nothing. During games, Carp is a completely different person. Very competitive, hates to lose, short fuse. He's different when he's not pitching. I'm not going to waste my breath convincing those here as I know it won't do any good, but I'm still wondering where you get your info from...

swampturkey.........you are quickly losing your cred on here....there are a ton of Reds fans who respect the heck out of your opinion cause you normally are sensible in your posts...normally......but if you are going to sit back and act as if Carpenter is not losing his cool a little, and is starting to catch the eye of the media, then you sir are wearing the wrong colored glasses......I was not even looking for any ammo and I can remember 1 case on Baseball Tonight and 1 on quick pitch where the announcer commented on Carpenter and his fuse....maybe the St. Louis Media has not run with it yet but its not far.....

noone doubts if CC is a bulldog or not when he is on the mound....what most are saying is the guy is a flat out prick....on and off the field...the game does not revolve around Carpenter, not even when he is pitching and I think he is starting to see that.....he is one of those guys that is a stud, for sure...but when his ability starts to fail and he starts to lose games at a sudden pace, the whole world is going to tune in and watch...and a small part of me thinks most of Cardinal nation will sit back and applaud when he is gone..just as long as someone else takes his place in production.....I would even bet that you Card fans would trade Carp for a carp clone in a second, even if that Carp clone came dressed in Cubs clothes to practice every day...

[Magdal]

I think you got something there Lidspinner. The SwampTurkey must have seen the numerous instances where Carp would show up his teamates on the field and in the dugout in front of the camera last year. Not to mention his part in the brawl were words from old Dusty induced him blow up, escalating the whole mess.

The Cardinals as an organization don't like that stuff. They like to be seen as squeaky clean. Barring some radical change in attitude AND results, Carp's days are numbered. And where do you think he will land? Let's see...Rolen, Edmonds, Renteria...I could go on!

[Hey Meat]

swampturkey.........you are quickly losing your cred on here....there are a ton of Reds fans who respect the heck out of your opinion cause you normally are sensible in your posts...normally......but if you are going to sit back and act as if Carpenter is not losing his cool a little, and is starting to catch the eye of the media, then you sir are wearing the wrong colored glasses......I was not even looking for any ammo and I can remember 1 case on Baseball Tonight and 1 on quick pitch where the announcer commented on Carpenter and his fuse....maybe the St. Louis Media has not run with it yet but its not far.....

noone doubts if CC is a bulldog or not when he is on the mound....what most are saying is the guy is a flat out prick....on and off the field...the game does not revolve around Carpenter, not even when he is pitching and I think he is starting to see that.....he is one of those guys that is a stud, for sure...but when his ability starts to fail and he starts to lose games at a sudden pace, the whole world is going to tune in and watch...and a small part of me thinks most of Cardinal nation will sit back and applaud when he is gone..just as long as someone else takes his place in production.....I would even bet that you Card fans would trade Carp for a carp clone in a second, even if that Carp clone came dressed in Cubs clothes to practice every day...

I even heard about Carp's fuse when watching the D-Backs telecast versus the Reds early in the season. His rep is quickly spreading throughout the league. He is likely to erupt this week.. At Cubs Tuesday, or at Cincinnati on Sunday. Wish I could be there.

[lidspinner]

I will burn a Carpenter jersey "ala" Lebron style at Willies Pub if the reds sign him....If they sign him for league minimum and he wins the cy young, I might walk up and congratulate the reds Front Office, but I will hunt Dusty down and shove his toothpick up his nose for playing Carpenter enough times to win the cy young....I'd rather play for 2nd place the next few years as opposed to having Carpenter and competeting for 1st place.....thats how much I despise the guy, he is a cancer, and he is only worth his salt when he is winning 20+ games a year. So basically he is no longer worth his salt is what I am trying to say

[Razzle]

It was Hanley Ramirez who slid into Yadi during the Marlins series last week. I love watching Carp pitch, and really didn't notice the crap he's done up until a few years ago. It's becoming moreso the norm than the exception now, and that combined with his declining production make me think this will be his last year in St. Louis. Being competitive is one thing, but there is no place for just being a complete jackass as he's been several times over the past couple of seasons. I will always enjoy watching him pitch and what he has done over the last 7 years, but could definitely do without the antics he now brings.

[Swampturkey]

swampturkey.........you are quickly losing your cred on here....there are a ton of Reds fans who respect the heck out of your opinion cause you normally are sensible in your posts...normally......but if you are going to sit back and act as if Carpenter is not losing his cool a little, and is starting to catch the eye of the media, then you sir are wearing the wrong colored glasses......I was not even looking for any ammo and I can remember 1 case on Baseball Tonight and 1 on quick pitch where the announcer commented on Carpenter and his fuse....maybe the St. Louis Media has not run with it yet but its not far.....

noone doubts if CC is a bulldog or not when he is on the mound....what most are saying is the guy is a flat out prick....on and off the field...the game does not revolve around Carpenter, not even when he is pitching and I think he is starting to see that.....he is one of those guys that is a stud, for sure...but when his ability starts to fail and he starts to lose games at a sudden pace, the whole world is going to tune in and watch...and a small part of me thinks most of Cardinal nation will sit back and applaud when he is gone..just as long as someone else takes his place in production.....I would even bet that you Card fans would trade Carp for a carp clone in a second, even if that Carp clone came dressed in Cubs clothes to practice every day...

I'm not at all saying that Carp doesn't lose his cool. I know he does. What I was objecting to is Madgal's post saying the media is writing about Carpenter. I simply asked for evidence of this as I have not seen or heard ANYTHING. Last year, yes, after the brawl and a few other instances, people were talking about it, but this year, I have not heard anything.

I have watched Carpenter for many years and I know he seems to be different than he was a couple of years ago. I also have seen how he is OFF the field so I know he is not the total monster you all want/believe him to be. On the field, he doesn't do a great job of hiding his emotions. Off the field and behind the scenes, he is a beloved teammate and winner of the TEAM voted on Darryl Kile Award after the 2006 season. The award goes to the player most representing the traits DK had of being a great person, father and teammate. Other winners have been Mike Matheny, Adam Wainwright, Cal Eldred, Russ Springer, Skip Schumaker and Matt Holliday just to name a few. If he is such a horrible person, his teammates would not have given him that honor. I don't know what happens to him when he takes the mound. He's like bipoloar or something. Highs and lows.

I don't intend to argue about him the person because just as those in St. Louis will never change their minds about your guys, Phillips and Cueto, I realize nothing Carp does will make you like him. It's like politics. I don't argue that either as no one ever changes their opinions.

Carpenter is very popular in St. Louis. His Cy Young Award, All-Star start, World Series Championship, etc may have something to do with that though. You help us win, we love you for life. Period.

[Swampturkey]

It was Hanley Ramirez who slid into Yadi during the Marlins series last week. I love watching Carp pitch, and really didn't notice the crap he's done up until a few years ago. It's becoming moreso the norm than the exception now, and that combined with his declining production make me think this will be his last year in St. Louis. Being competitive is one thing, but there is no place for just being a complete jackass as he's been several times over the past couple of seasons. I will always enjoy watching him pitch and what he has done over the last 7 years, but could definitely do without the antics he now brings.

He really isn't "declining in production" as much as it may look. Aside from one horrible start this year, he has been pretty good. Just doesn't get any run support for some reason or the bullpen blows his games.

That said, I don't think his option will be picked up after the season because 1. the Cards will still make a push to retain Pujols and 2. now the Wainwright's option won't automatcially kick in since he'll end the season on the DL, they'll have to work out something new with him. 3. my guess is they'll try to resign Berkman, especially if Pujols goes.

side note, I'd probably like your guy Phillips if not for him being a "complete jackass" and I could do without all of his antics. To each their own.

[Swampturkey]

I think you got something there Lidspinner. The SwampTurkey must have seen the numerous instances where Carp would show up his teamates on the field and in the dugout in front of the camera last year. Not to mention his part in the brawl were words from old Dusty induced him blow up, escalating the whole mess.

NUMEROUS?? I know of ONE GAME with Brendan Ryan. What are the other instances in which he has shown up his teammates? I'd really like to know.

[Magdal]

NUMEROUS?? I know of ONE GAME with Brendan Ryan. What are the other instances in which he has shown up his teammates? I'd really like to know.

You don't seem to know much about anything Turkey. Get back to me in Sept. when Carp is still the worst pitcher on the team, and Albert still the worst player for the $ in all of baseball.

[Parliament]

side note, I'd probably like your guy Phillips if not for him being a "complete jackass" and I could do without all of his antics. To each their own.

What antics? Telling the truth and playing killer D?

[Razzle]

He really isn't "declining in production" as much as it may look. Aside from one horrible start this year, he has been pretty good. Just doesn't get any run support for some reason or the bullpen blows his games.

I pretty much agree with much of what you say here, but it just seems to me he's not dominating as much as he used to.

That said, I don't think his option will be picked up after the season because 1. the Cards will still make a push to retain Pujols and 2. now the Wainwright's option won't automatcially kick in since he'll end the season on the DL, they'll have to work out something new with him. 3. my guess is they'll try to resign Berkman, especially if Pujols goes.

Everything that I've read about the Wainwright situation has the option being a team option that they will assuredly pick up. Is there something I'm missing here?

side note, I'd probably like your guy Phillips if not for him being a "complete jackass" and I could do without all of his antics. To each their own.

Phillips is as much my guy as he is yours. I'm not a Reds fan, but a Cards fan.

[Razzle]

You don't seem to know much about anything Turkey. Get back to me in Sept. when Carp is still the worst pitcher on the team, and Albert still the worst player for the $ in all of baseball.

Carp will not be worse than McClellan and I doubt he's worse than Lohse or Westbrook. Pujols has a long way to fall from even his rough start to be worse values than Barry Zito and Vernon Wells.