I agree all of this seems trite, but after everything the program has gone through, how are players dumb enough to keep accepting favors from boosters and not think they'll get caught?Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27
I agree all of this seems trite, but after everything the program has gone through, how are players dumb enough to keep accepting favors from boosters and not think they'll get caught?
I don't think in this case they did accept a favor and I still think it's stupid. The NCAA is a total joke.
Players from OSU accepted payment for hours they didn't work, while employed by a booster. I'd call that accepting a favor. Not paying green's fees would also be accepting a favor in my book. The green's fees may seem like small potatoes, but OSU has brought this on themselves at this point. It has been poorly handled by Smith, and in no way does OSU reserve the right to claim they are being unfairly treated by the NCAA IMO.
I do feel sorry for OSU fans, however. This has been an absolute nightmare I would imagine in that it just never seems to end. Being an OSU thread on a Cincinnati Reds message board, I do expect to see a lot of OSU support, so I'd wager the feelings would be much different if this were happening to an SEC team, or Michigan, or even in Cincinnati. I know I'd probably react differently if it were Cincinnati.
Back in 1991, I had a summer accounting job for a struggling real estate developer who had laid off all their accountants. I asked questions about some payments to an OSU basketball player, a starter. My supervisor kind of rolled his eyes and indicated that it wasn't necessarily for work performed. How the university can prevent, eliminate, or control this type of thing, I have no idea.
Athletic boosters, alum or just "friend" of the program are a breed unto themselves. I thnk punishing the booster with banishment from the program when discovered is about the best they can do. I'm pretty sure that they probably go over "do not take payments from boosters other than wages for work performed." This type of violation is all the responsibility of the athletes, not "NCAA rules" or Ohio State's failure to exercise institutional control.
The three amigos: Pryor, Posey, and Herron.
Of course, OSU could win some respect and send the two left packing.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
Gene Smith really needs to go.
I think all of these rules are terribly stupid, and the NCAA is exploitative, but you have to go by the rules until they are changed. This is all a bummer living in Columbus. Things are just a little nicer here when the football team is good, similar to Cincinnati with the Bengals and Reds I think.
I can't see the next 5 years being anything but rough, at a minimum. Maybe if they land Meyer the timetable will accelerate, but I'm not sure he'd even want to come here at this point in time, even with it being his dream job.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
[QUOTE=SeeinRed;2488928]Players from OSU accepted payment for hours they didn't work, while employed by a booster. I'd call that accepting a favor. Not paying green's fees would also be accepting a favor in my book. The green's fees may seem like small potatoes, but OSU has brought this on themselves at this point. It has been poorly handled by Smith, and in no way does OSU reserve the right to claim they are being unfairly treated by the NCAA IMO. QUOTE]
I'm glad the NCAA busted out the old calculator to figure out that these guys hourly wage. It sounds to me like they did some work, the guy in charge had no idea exactly how much they did work so he estimated it and the NCAA took that as gospel. The letter said they were paid "approx $15 an hour". Well why don't we just say they were paid $17 an hour or $19. Does it really matter? They were all confirmed to have shown up to work so it wasn't a Rhett Bomar situation.
The fact that the NCAA is spending time on situations like this is all I need to know. If they are so short staffed and unable to enforce so much why spend so much time on stuff like this?
Rightly or wrongly, the NCAA is like the IRS. Once they catch on to wrongdoing, they latch onto to you and minisculely examine each and every little detail. Ask anyone who has gone through an IRS audit.
The key is, keep it clean and don't give them reason to start looking. Because once they start, they don't stop.
I love the Buckeyes, but they only have themselves to blame for getting into this mess.
She used to wake me up with coffee ever morning
Except the IRS employs thousands of people to enforce their rules. They have the resources, power and time to go over every single bit of detail with a fine tooth comb. The NCAA does not. They have more rules than they can enforce and given that need to focus on the big stuff, not Devier Posey's golfing habits or lack thereof.
The Buckeye's have a broken system to blame for getting in this mess. I don't want to rehash what the first 500 posts in this thread focused on, but this is more of the same. By in large the Buckeye's have "kept it clean". These "rules" they are breaking and mind numbingly stupid. The NCAA not only doesn't allow you to sell your own stuff to make money, they also apparently make it difficult to actually work in your down time. If the NCAA wants to enforce these rules that's fine. They should beef up their enforcement staff and do an annual audit of all their member institutions. Until that happens they should get rid of rules they clearly can't enforce and focus on big things like recruiting and actual booster payouts.
I would venture to bet that if you dig deep enough into every major college football program, you would find things that aren't clean. The NCAA is just making an example out of Ohio State.
Largely, I agree with you. I think NCAA Div. 1 sports is a broken model and what OSU got caught for was mostly stupid. But they were stupid to get caught.
The trouble is, its a hard debating point to make when its yours and my favorite team that got caught. Us OSU fans can say everyone else does it, they're about as clean as anyone else, etc etc. but it all sounds like sour grapes and, like my kids when they were little, they aren't sorry for what they did, they're just sorry they got caught.
I've tried to have this conversation with non-OSU college football fans and I just get a lot of eye rolls and it never goes very far.
She used to wake me up with coffee ever morning
I agree, a lot of the NCAA rules are stupid and hypocritical. But the facts are the facts. This is a dirty program. It pains me to my core to say that, but it is what it is. I respect Gene Smith, I don't think he intentionally caused any of this, but it's time for a fresh start. I spare Gordon Gee, but the AD and compliance department need to hit the road. We can talk all we want about how minor this stuff is, it's nit picky stuff, etc. etc. A whole lot of minor things add up to a really big UH OH. This program is going to be set back, on the field and off the field, for a good number of years.
FWIW I think these are "separate" incidents. I don't think this has to do with the whole Tressel and Tat 5 investigations. While some of the same characters are involved, I don't really see the connection. Call me naive but I don't know what a coach or AD can do in this situation. Its based upon the player knowing what he should do and what he shouldn't. It would be nice to think that the universities can be proactive with these booster type situations but the reality is its more reactionary.
I don't think this really has much to do with Fickell at all but I think OSU makes sweeping changes heading into next season. I think Fickell has a slim chance of being retained as a head coach but think that just got a little more difficult.
One thing to keep in mind re: the NCAA. The NCAA is a member-driven, voluntary organization. The NCAA doesn't sit in Indianapolis and pull rules out of their ears willy-nilly. The schools that make up the NCAA make the rules, the NCAA enforces them. So when people whine and complain about NCAA and 'its rules', remember the schools are the ones making and voting on them, not the NCAA.
I also put a lot of blame on the boosters. These are adults who will wet themselves if an 19 year old OSU football player will eat in their restaurant or play on their golf course. For the most part, they know the kids are the ones will be punished if they are caught.
"In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
-Walt Whitman
If these are separate incidents then it reflects even worse on OSU but I agree with you that coaches can't very well police this stuff. The problem is once the NCAA gets you in their cross hairs they continue to dig and dig and end up with this sort of thing. If it wasn't for Tressel originally lying and getting the NCAA involved these other little things never would have been an issue
And if it wasn't for a stupid rule, Tressel wouldn't have to have lied and the Buckeyes would be ranked #6 right now. Round and round we go.
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