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Thread: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

  1. #121
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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    I still think Tressel is a good man, but lets also not make him into a saint that "took one for the team".

    Frankly, I can't come up with any good reasons as to why he'd lie to the NCAA besides hoping that this mess could get swept under the rug and the OSU football machine could continue.

    There will still continue to be a lot of OSU fans that are Jim Tressel fans. I'm still one, albeit a much more realistic one. He's still a good man. I don't know what its like to have my ethics and morals challenged almost every day. If a guy like Tressel gets worn down and lets himself get ethically compromised, it just makes me wonder if its really possible for big time NCAA Div. 1 coach to be anything but a glorified pro coach who wins at all costs.
    Good post.

    Truth is, there are no perfect people and no people devoid of at least a sliver of virtue; we're all some shade of gray on the scale. I think Tressel got what he had coming under the circumstances, but I'm not a fan of the latter-day impulse to leap upon a mistake and use it to erase or invalidate anything good that person ever did.

    And as a graduate of a school that's been under the electron microscope and the hatchet jobs that come with it... good luck.
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  3. #122
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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Did anyone here Thom Brennamen last night announce in the Reds game something to the tune like, "0It's a shame Tressel had to resign, I'd want my kid to play for him anyday", What a moron.
    I probably disagree with Thom more than I agree with him, but on this issue, he can speak for me.

  4. #123
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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    You need to read the SI story. Here's a guy that rigged raffles at team camps, so superstar high school kids won all the time to encourage them to come to OSU. Meanwhile, the average joes lose out. Jim Tressel lied because he didn't want his program to get caught, and he thought he was above the rules, and for no other reasons. His cheating goes back to when he was an asst. in the mid 80's at OSU, this is nothing new. No one is suggesting he be burned at a cross, but let's call him what he is, a liar, a cheater, and a con artist. Anyone who argues otherwise is ignoring facts.
    Most people know by now, but since it is apparent you haven't been educated on this fine point, don't believe everything you read on the internet. The raffle story is so ludicrous that it brings the veracity of any of the "new" information contained in the article into question. I imagine he would have included Tressel's seedy Mexican cat juggling routine if it had been mentioned by a "source."
    Last edited by traderumor; 05-31-2011 at 10:12 AM.
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  5. #124
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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    Most moral challenges don't come as a big roaring thing that flies into your face with great fanfare. They come as a silent little sliver of a thought, an opportunity accompanied by a unstated wink, a private look, or a thing where it is easiest to do nothing and look the other way.

    I don't think Tressel thought he was above it all. But I also think he did not want his program to get caught. I think he got caught up in the perpetuating of the OSU football machine, to keep the winning and to keep the money pouring in. There is immense day-to-day pressure for that. Keeping his star players on the field became his paramount thing. Instead of allowing the winning (and money) to get compromised and blow the whistle on his own guys, he let the winning at all costs dictate what he did. Or in this case, what he didn't do. What he didn't do was the right thing.

    And once you start down that slippery slope, it just gets worse and worse. Particularly at a high-profile program like OSU. I think that big ball of crap starts rolling downhill and panic sets in. Bad decisions get compounded by even more bad decisions. And you end up saying "what happened?".

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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    One of the points that seems a bit overplayed to me is that now they are saying "could be as many as a couple dozen players since 2002." What is that, a couple of players a year out there exploiting themselves in Columbus? I don't intend to minimize, just feel that number is not shock and awe as it is being presented.
    Don't get caught up in the numbers. The fact that it's been going on throughout the Tressel tenure but was never reported is a big problem. It sure sounds like a lack of institutional control to me

  7. #126
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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    I think we're all in agreement that OSU is not unusual in what their players were caught doing and that fact will work against them when it comes to the NCAAs ruling. Because "everyone was doing it" they'll want to make an example of OSU to send a message that "you'd better quit doing it because the risk of being caught ain't worth it."

    In other words if OSU doesn't get painful, painful penalties, what's the incentive for other schools to curb this behavior? OSU is the ideal program to "make an example of".

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Most people know by now, but since it is apparent you haven't been educated on this fine point, don't believe everything you read on the internet. The raffle story is so ludicrous that it brings the veracity of any of the "new" information contained in the article into question. I imagine he would have included Tressel's seedy Mexican cat juggling routine if it had been mentioned by a "source."
    You're right, SI, isn't a credible source. Wake up.

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  9. #128
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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    C'mon Brutus. Grow up out of your naivete. You are already wrong on Tressel surviving. One investigation has led to another. Don't stand behind "what we know now". Unstand that we don't know much and that it's likely there's a lot of fire behind this smoke. OSU is looking at quite a bit more than what it has self imposed. This has allegedly been going on for nearly 10 yrs. OSU did not report it. They are in big big doo doo
    Naive? Please. I will stake everything I have that I know 10 times more about the inner workings of that program than you do. So please don't resort to calling me naive.

    I spent five years covering it for a living. I know people in the program, athletic department, compliance, influential boosters, etc. I won't claim I'm always going to be right on opinions, but it absolutely is not borne out of being naive. So spare me the rhetoric on this.

    If you want to play the naive angle, as an assignment, go look at the football programs that have received two-year bans (since people are comparing to USC). Look at the money changing hands and compare that to this. Then get back to me with a straight face and actually try to tell me the situations are anything remotely similar.

    So far, we literally have only players trading tattoos for memorabilia and a coach not reporting it to the NCAA. We *may* have something on Pryor's cars, though it's so extremely early to know if anything will come of that.

    So if you want to explain how that all leads to deep doo, I'm all ears. But if you're going to be intellectually honest with yourself and actually look at the case reports of the "serious" NCAA infractions that have been known (USC, Alabama, Michigan basketball, etc.), this is not even in the same ballpark.

    The NCAA hasn't even charged Ohio State with failure to monitor -- the misdemeanor offense of lack of institutional control. But you want to call me naive? Excuse me if I'm going to find that terribly funny.

    The SI article, if you read my posts all the way (which clearly you didn't), did not shed even an ounce of new information about Ohio State. It went into a little more detail about the tattoo stuff, but again, does that really change anything? Again, Ohio State did report what they knew. Even if a few more players were involved, does it change much? Further, it IS based on the account of a convicted felon. Want to know the credibility of the account? One player mentioned for trading for a tattoo (Storm Klein) has already been proven to not even own a tattoo. Again, there might be *some* truth to the article, but going solely off the word of unnamed sources and convicted felons isn't wise, as we've now found out with at least one player not owning a tattoo as was claimed.

    I have a real good hunch who was the unnamed source. And if it's that person, it's a guy that didn't get a raise from Tressel, hasn't been welcomed back into the football offices for quite some time, and is upset at Tressel for limiting his extra marital affairs around the workplace. There could well be a serious ax to grind there. But again, I'm naive, what do I know about the situation. Right?

    Ohio State football, as far as boosters are concerned, is dirty. It has been, always will be regardless of who the coach is. Literally it won't ever matter who the coach is. It cannot be stopped there, at Kentucky, at USC, at Alabama or anywhere else. There's no way to shut it down. But Jim Tressel, unlike Scrap's bogus claims, is someone with the utmost integrity I've ever met in the industry. Period. As Island said in a post above, that doesn't mean Tressel is perfect and hasn't made mistakes. Far from it. But I'd stake his character against any head coach in the country bar none. If people want programs to not cheat, you should want 120 Tressels coaching college football. It might not stop boosters from doing their thing, but you'd have the coaching staffs playing by the rules as best as possible.
    Last edited by Brutus; 05-31-2011 at 11:09 AM.
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  10. #129
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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    I have no personal knowledge on his reasoning, but I find it hard to believe that Tress didn't report the violations just to protect his players. He knew he had a legitimate shot at a MNC in '10 and while I'm sure he took steps to put a stop to the Tat5 himself, the chance at another title had to have played a major part for not going to Compliance with what he knew. And for that it was necessary for him to go.

    That said, the raffle story may be the most inane aside that found its way into a "major" publication that I've ever read.

    Sea Ray - I'll flip your question. OSU self-reported most of what we know and unlike USC who stone-walled the NCAA for four years, OSU has cooperated with the NCAA. So if OSU gets killed in their penalty, why would any institution self-report anything they find? Why not roll the dice and hope that nothing comes to light?

    If nothing else comes out, my prediction is OSU loses 3-5 scholarships, forfeits 2010 wins and has a 2011 post-season ban. If anything comes of the car or Pryor situations, then I'll guess no post-season in '11 and '12 and a loss of about 10 total scholarships at a minimum. In any scenario, Gene Smith should be fired.

  11. #130
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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I think we're all in agreement that OSU is not unusual in what their players were caught doing and that fact will work against them when it comes to the NCAAs ruling. Because "everyone was doing it" they'll want to make an example of OSU to send a message that "you'd better quit doing it because the risk of being caught ain't worth it."

    In other words if OSU doesn't get painful, painful penalties, what's the incentive for other schools to curb this behavior? OSU is the ideal program to "make an example of".
    Ohio State has led the entire country in self-reported violations to the NCAA for the last six years running.

    Do you really think the program that self-reports the most violations is the one that should be made an example of? Interesting logic there.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #131
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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    If people want programs to not cheat, you should want 120 Tressels coaching college football. It might not stop boosters from doing their thing, but you'd have the coaching staffs playing by the rules as best as possible.

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  13. #132
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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Ohio State has led the entire country in self-reported violations to the NCAA for the last six years running.

    Do you really think the program that self-reports the most violations is the one that should be made an example of? Interesting logic there.
    Ummmmmmmmm they seemed to have "forgotten" to self report quite a few. Maybe they should check Tressel's email inbox for some more?

  14. #133
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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Ummmmmmmmm they seemed to have "forgotten" to self report quite a few. Maybe they should check Tressel's email inbox for some more?
    You apparently haven't got a firm grasp of the situation. They did self-report those violations. But in case you "forgot," it was self-reported in December when it came back from the FBI. Remember when this whole thing came public? It was because OSU self-reported it to the NCAA in December. The only issue was that it didn't get done when Tressel first learned of it, but rather happened after the FBI turned the information over to Ohio State.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #134
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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    You apparently haven't got a firm grasp of the situation. They did self-report those violations. But in case you "forgot," it was self-reported in December when it came back from the FBI. Remember when this whole thing came public? It was because OSU self-reported it to the NCAA in December. The only issue was that it didn't get done when Tressel first learned of it, but rather happened after the FBI turned the information over to Ohio State.
    Yeah, they somehow "forgot" to report it until the season was over. When did the violations take place? Didn't they "self report it" right as the story was breaking anyway? I guess you are "forgetting" some facts as well. The bolded doesn't make that self report useless or anything does it?

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    Re: 2011 OSU Football-Will Tressel Survive?

    Play nice, gents.

    This is something some folks take very personally. Keep that in mind.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.


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