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Thread: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

  1. #1
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    I found this interesting. Stem cell injections are being credited for Bartolo Colon's career revival.

    NEW YORK (AP)—Major League Baseball is examining a procedure performed on Yankees right-hander Bartolo Colon(notes) last year that involved stem cells being injected into his painful shoulder and elbow, according to The New York Times.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...-yankees-colon
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    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    It's very interesting stuff, and really is the future of medicine in many areas.

    It's a gray area right now (as far as MLB rules go), but I don't see why MLB'ers shouldn't be able to receive the same treatments that you and I would.

    In my mind at least, this is different than greenies or anabolic steroids. The stem cells were taken from his own bone marrow.

    But then again, I'm coming around more and more to the opinion that performance enhancing anything should be probably be ok. You can't turn the clock back on medicine and technology to the 20's, when Ruth was crushing pitchers while ODing on beer and hot dogs.

  4. #3
    Dyslexic Taquitos Quatitos's Avatar
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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    In my mind at least, this is different than greenies or anabolic steroids. The stem cells were taken from his own bone marrow.
    I think if they were to draw a line on stem cell treatments, that would be where they did it. If it comes from your own body it is basically the same as getting Tommy John done, except its stem cells instead of a ligament. Now if you were to take stem cells that your own body didn't produce, then that could be questionable, but if its from your body I don't see the problem.

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    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    Although isn't blood doping (banned by cycling), your own blood? I don't think I'd have a problem with this either based on what I know.

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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    One problem I see is that no one really knows what effect this could have on the game as a whole. Stem cell research is an extremely young area of focus and there haven't really been any studies that investigate what happens when the stem cells are injected into healthy tissue.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    There are two issues to consider when discussing PEDs:

    1) Certain of them are illegal.

    2) Certain of them either are detrimental to your health or have unknown effects. The last thing you want is the league all juicing up and then have a death epidemic on your hands with your players. Especially when players feel like they have to choose between their health and succeeding in this line of work.

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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    There are two issues to consider when discussing PEDs:

    1) Certain of them are illegal.

    2) Certain of them either are detrimental to your health or have unknown effects. The last thing you want is the league all juicing up and then have a death epidemic on your hands with your players. Especially when players feel like they have to choose between their health and succeeding in this line of work.
    1) I don't see this as a problem, there are plenty of other kinds of steroids which are perfectly legal if prescribed by a DR. for a medical condition.

    I think the question is, is recovering from Tommy John a legitimate condition for which baseball should allow it? What about for a strained muscle? Where does the line get drawn? Honestly I don't know, just bringing up the subject.

    2) You are correct there are a lot of steroids out there that have not been sufficiently tested to know what if any consequences there are to taking them.

    It is my opinion (I'm not a Doctor, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night) that the great steroid scare has come about because of people who were abusing them and basically taking way too big of a dose. Most steroids are synthetic supplements of chemicals found naturally in your body already. Too much of a good thing is bad for you, if you drink too much water you can die Water intoxication, but again more research needs to be done so we know.
    Last edited by Caveman Techie; 05-12-2011 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Changed some wording to clarify and punctuation.
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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    What if steroids had NO side effects and still produced the incredible results we saw in Bonds and his ilk?

    Would there be any basis for outrage at watching the records fall?

    Wouldn't that be just like advanced training techniques and nutrition?
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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    Koufax was forced to use painkillers before and after every start in 1966 and still Koufax still logged 335 innings, striking out an NL-record 382 batters and compiling a 26-8 record.

    Don Drysdale said he did so many painkillers in 1968 that the scoreboard was unreadable.

  11. #10
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin Fan View Post
    One problem I see is that no one really knows what effect this could have on the game as a whole. Stem cell research is an extremely young area of focus and there haven't really been any studies that investigate what happens when the stem cells are injected into healthy tissue.
    Tons of studies exist on stem cell research. This is a very hot area of medical research, and very exciting.

    Especially when the stem cells can be taken from your very own body- we're talking the advent of regenerative medicine.

    If an ulnar collateral ligament can be repaired by injecting stem cells into it (theoretically, of course), wouldn't that be better, and more fair, than requiring a player to undergo open surgery?

    Absolutely, it would.

    This procedure saved Colon more open surgery, and so far, seems to have worked.

    Here's a nice article that better describes the event:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/sp...-comeback.html

    PS- I'd like to have my rotator cuff repaired this way!
    Last edited by Always Red; 05-12-2011 at 02:43 PM.

  12. #11
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    What if steroids had NO side effects and still produced the incredible results we saw in Bonds and his ilk?

    Would there be any basis for outrage at watching the records fall?

    Wouldn't that be just like advanced training techniques and nutrition?
    Valid question and there probably wouldn't be any outrage since they would have always been viewed as just another supplement.

    But, like many things, things that are too good to be true typically are. Many things that seem to be great (for whatever reason) have a downside to them.

  13. #12
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Koufax was forced to use painkillers before and after every start in 1966 and still Koufax still logged 335 innings, striking out an NL-record 382 batters and compiling a 26-8 record.

    Don Drysdale said he did so many painkillers in 1968 that the scoreboard was unreadable.
    Koufax is a case study on why drug usage should be monitored in sports.

  14. #13
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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Tons of studies exist on stem cell research. This is a very hot area of medical research, and very exciting.

    Especially when the stem cells can be taken from your very own body- we're talking the advent of regenerative medicine.

    If an ulnar collateral ligament can be repaired by injecting stem cells into it (theoretically, of course), wouldn't that be better, and more fair, than requiring a player to undergo open surgery?

    Absolutely, it would.

    This procedure saved Colon more open surgery, and so far, seems to have worked.

    Here's a nice article that better describes the event:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/12/sp...-comeback.html

    PS- I'd like to have my rotator cuff repaired this way!
    LOL, did you even read my post? I said, and I quote, "HEALTHY tissue." In medicine, we consider that to be tissue that there is nothing pathologically wrong with. In other words, normal working tissue that is not diseased or injured and requires no treatment at all. My statement stands on the fact that there are no studies that have investigated the effect of stem cells on this type of tissue, because there haven't been. Existing stem cell studies have only investigated the effect of stem cells on pathological tissue. Make sense?

  15. #14
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    I don't see a problem with it as long as its well regulated within baseball.
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  16. #15
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Stem Cell Treatments: next in performance enhancement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin Fan View Post
    LOL, did you even read my post? I said, and I quote, "HEALTHY tissue." In medicine, we consider that to be tissue that there is nothing pathologically wrong with. In other words, normal working tissue that is not diseased or injured and requires no treatment at all. My statement stands on the fact that there are no studies that have investigated the effect of stem cells on this type of tissue, because there haven't been. Existing stem cell studies have only investigated the effect of stem cells on pathological tissue. Make sense?
    Hey thanks for the snark. I get a lot of that lately here.

    Yes, I did read your post, in toto.

    I'm part of the "we" too.

    I understand you, A-OK, doc.

    There are literally THOUSANDS of referred, scientific articles on stem cell therapy.

    Redszone is a very different place than it used to be.

    I submit to you that Bartolo Colon had PATHOLOGIC TISSUE. Not normal. Do orthopedic surgeons operate on NORMAL, uninjured tissue?

    But whatever.

    I think I'm done with this place.
    Last edited by Always Red; 05-12-2011 at 08:20 PM.


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