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Thread: Paging Yonder Alonso...

  1. #16
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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    I have to wonder if the reports on Alonso's play in LF are exaggerated. There's a very recent interview with Alonso on thebatssignal.com where he talks about his transition to LF. He seems very pleased with his progress, which leads me to believe he's not embarrassing himself out there.

    As others have said, the Reds have dealt with below average defense in LF for a long time now. Teams do that (witness, just within the division, the Cards playing Berkman in the OF, the Cubs playing Soriano, the Astros playing Lee). LF in GAB is small. That will help minimize a guy's shortcomings.
    Agreed. Add in the fact that the Reds have the best defense at virtually every other position on the diamond (especially CF, SS, and 3B- which all affect LF) and I don't think it will be that big of a deal.

    You have to admire Alonso's willingness to make himself as good a LF as he can possibly be, given that he's not really built to play there. That's a team player. He's had fruitful seasoning as a hitter in AAA, as he's now grinding out the kind of high AVG/high OBP/solid SLG numbers he was projected to produce. His swing fits GAB very well. IMO, he deserves his shot sometime this year if he keeps that up.
    Maybe I'm cynical, but I don't give him as much credit for this. What choice did he have? He is property of the Reds for the forseeable future. If he ever has any hope of reaching and playing in the majors in his current situation, it has to be somewhere other than 1B. I guess he could demand a trade, but how many times have you heard of a minor league prospect demanding a trade?
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  3. #17
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    It's easy to say "Well, Dunn and Gomes are horrible defensively ... so what's the problem with putting Alonso out there? We're already accustomed to bad D in left."

    Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard Adam Dunn and Jonny Gomes look like Gold Glove left fielders compared to Yonder Alonso. I sure hope Alonso can play left "well enough" ... because the Reds sure need it. Having his bat in there instead of Gomes' would be huge. But I'm concerned he will be a circus act defensively. Look how much people rip Gomes' defense ... and he's not even THAT bad. I mean, he's bad, but I've seen worse in the Bigs. Gomes has worked himself into being a "far below average" defensive outfielder, which is a step up from "absolutely horrible."

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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    It's easy to say "Well, Dunn and Gomes are horrible defensively ... so what's the problem with putting Alonso out there?"

    Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard Adam Dunn and Jonny Gomes look like Gold Glove left fielders compared to Yonder Alonso. I sure hope Alonso can play left "well enough" ... because the Reds sure need it. But I'm concerned he will be a circus act defensively. Look how much people rip Gomes' defense ... and he's not even THAT bad. I mean, he's bad, but I've seen worse in the Bigs. Gomes has worked himself into being a "far below average" defensive outfielder, which is a step up from "absolutely horrible."
    If Alonso can put up > .850 OPS, I don't care how bad his defense is in LF. The rest of the defense and his offense will make up for it. The difference with Gomes is that he cannot put up > .850 OPS (or at least, he's done it once in the last six years).
    Last edited by Benihana; 05-13-2011 at 10:58 AM.
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    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    If Alonso can put up > .850 OPS, I don't care how bad his defense is in LF. The rest of the defense and his offense will make up for it. The difference with Gomes is that he cannot put up > .850 OPS.
    Yes, if you can guarantee Alonso would OPS above .850 in the Majors, of course you would call him up ASAP. However, that is no certainty. He's had a hot three weeks in AAA (which I'm very excited about). You know what his OPS was last year in the minors? .820. And that was with over 500 ABs. (He was coming off the broken hand, but even the previous year he only OPS'd .838.) So, Alonso OPS'ing .850 in the Bigs is no sure thing.

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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Yes, if you can guarantee Alonso would OPS above .850 in the Majors, of course you would call him up ASAP. However, that is no certainty. He's had a hot three weeks in AAA (which I'm very excited about). You know what his OPS was last year in the minors? .820. And that was with over 500 ABs. (He was coming off the broken hand, but even the previous year he only OPS'd .838.) So, Alonso OPS'ing .850 in the Bigs is no sure thing.
    Totally agree.

    If he can't OPS > .850, it's not worth playing him in LF everyday. Now is as good a time as any to see if he can though. Ditto for Frazier at 3B- at least until Rolen/Francisco come back.
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  7. #21
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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    It's easy to say "Well, Dunn and Gomes are horrible defensively ... so what's the problem with putting Alonso out there? We're already accustomed to bad D in left."

    Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard Adam Dunn and Jonny Gomes look like Gold Glove left fielders compared to Yonder Alonso. I sure hope Alonso can play left "well enough" ... because the Reds sure need it. Having his bat in there instead of Gomes' would be huge. But I'm concerned he will be a circus act defensively. Look how much people rip Gomes' defense ... and he's not even THAT bad. I mean, he's bad, but I've seen worse in the Bigs. Gomes has worked himself into being a "far below average" defensive outfielder, which is a step up from "absolutely horrible."
    Dunn pretty much had to be a 4 win bat to be a roughly average to a tick above average player while in left.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Maybe I'm cynical, but I don't give him as much credit for this. What choice did he have? He is property of the Reds for the forseeable future. If he ever has any hope of reaching and playing in the majors in his current situation, it has to be somewhere other than 1B. I guess he could demand a trade, but how many times have you heard of a minor league prospect demanding a trade?
    IMO, the guy has embraced it with a great attitude. You could tell if he was doing it halfheartedly. He makes no excuses, doesn't hedge about his willingness to give it a shot. All he does is express enthusiasm. For a top 10 pick, a guy who many felt was bigheaded for holding out for a major league deal, he sure seems like a team-first, willing to pay dues player to me. You like to see that in your top prospects, just like you want the best players on the major league squad to be hard workers.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  9. #23
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I think it's time to promote both of them. We currently have needs at 3B and LF, and they are both tearing the cover off the ball. Given that they are 24 and 25 years old, now is as good of a time as any to see if they can contribute at the major league level.
    We DID have a need at third. Rolen is supposed to be back today. So third isn't nearly as pressing as it was a few weeks ago.

    That being said, if their bats are similar (and they are right now), I'd prefer Frazier simply because he brings more to the table. He can play multiple positions at an average level and his defense in left is light-years ahead of Yonder. It's basically average from what I've seen...but that's light-years ahead of Yonder.

    So I guess besides the defense, it kind of comes down to...do you want a left handed bat (Yonder), or a right handed one (Todd)?

  10. #24
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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I posted this in the minor league thread, but it certainly fits here too. My argument for Frazier over Yonder.
    Frazier is riding a hot streak right now, but he's been nothing short of mediocre during most of his time in AAA.

    He was a ~.780 OPS guy last year, was an .805 OPS guy in April, and has exploded through the first 2 weeks of May.

    Frazier needs to show me more.
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  11. #25
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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Frazier is riding a hot streak right now, but he's been nothing short of mediocre during most of his time in AAA.

    He was a ~.780 OPS guy last year, was an .805 OPS guy in April, and has exploded through the first 2 weeks of May.

    Frazier needs to show me more.
    Frazier had a very low BABIP in April despite his power, K%, and BB% all being solid. His BABIP is starting to normalize and is now at .300. His .900+ OPS looks legit.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Frazier is riding a hot streak right now, but he's been nothing short of mediocre during most of his time in AAA.

    He was a ~.780 OPS guy last year, was an .805 OPS guy in April, and has exploded through the first 2 weeks of May.

    Frazier needs to show me more.
    Frazier's minor league numbers put Miguel Cairo's minor league numbers to shame. Also, he's capable of playing all the positions Cairo does. So why are we debating Alonso vs Frazier?

  13. #27
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Alonso isn't Corky Miller in left. He is roughly Gomes-esque out there. Which means that he isn't good out there at all, but at the same time he also isn't so bad that a team won't play him there.

  14. #28
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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Yes, if you can guarantee Alonso would OPS above .850 in the Majors, of course you would call him up ASAP. However, that is no certainty. He's had a hot three weeks in AAA (which I'm very excited about). You know what his OPS was last year in the minors? .820. And that was with over 500 ABs. (He was coming off the broken hand, but even the previous year he only OPS'd .838.) So, Alonso OPS'ing .850 in the Bigs is no sure thing.
    Alonso has dealt with a ton of issues too that relate to his "low numbers". Look at what he has done while healthy. He tore up the FSL, leading the league in OPS when he was promoted to AA. There he spent two weeks playing before breaking his wrist. From that point forward for 1 year, he wasn't all that good. From that 1 year mark through today he is OPS'ing well over .900 (he was in AAA at the time of the 1 year mark and from that point forward through the end of 2010, he hit .347/.421/.592). When Alonso has been fully healthy, the guy has been a .320/.400/.550 bat in the minor leagues.

  15. #29
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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Doug, you addressed this a little bit, but I think you are the only one who can give us a real answer to this question.

    Compare him to Gomes in LF. Better? Worse? The same? A lot worse?
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  16. #30
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    Re: Paging Yonder Alonso...

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Doug, you addressed this a little bit, but I think you are the only one who can give us a real answer to this question.

    Compare him to Gomes in LF. Better? Worse? The same? A lot worse?
    Probably the same. The guy is going to catch what he gets to. He is timid at the wall. Decent arm.


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