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Thread: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

  1. #31
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by krm1580 View Post
    For a minute lets ignore Ryan Ludwick's 2008 season which I think was a fluke, an anomally, a statical outlier, whatever you want to call it. What do you have?

    What I see is a pretty mediocre guy who turns 33 in a month. Does anybody honestly believe that Joey Votto is suddenly going to see better pitches because the ominous presence of Ryan Ludwick on deck?

    He is a marginal upgrade plus a rental. He does not fix anything long term and hardly provides the offense necessary to out slug our pitching problems.

    People throw out names like Kemp or Beltran which I am not sure are realistic financially, but I get it. They are significant upgrades and would have a ripple effect up a down the lineup and those I can get behind. I have no interest in dabbling on the margins which is what Ludwick is.
    Lets remember Ludwich is right now playing in one of the worst hitting parks in baseball in SD. While in Cincy his numbers would be better. Also he wouldn't or shouldn't be hitting 4th, he would be in teh 5 spot.

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  3. #32
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    Lets remember Ludwich is right now playing in one of the worst hitting parks in baseball in SD. While in Cincy his numbers would be better. Also he wouldn't or shouldn't be hitting 4th, he would be in teh 5 spot.
    So look at his stats from recent St. Louis years.

  4. #33
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf371 View Post
    So look at his stats from recent St. Louis years.
    I did and again lets remember Cincy is a hitters park. Lets also remember he is still better then Gomes and we would be getting him for basically nothing if it's Hesiey that we delt for him.

  5. #34
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    I did and again lets remember Cincy is a hitters park. Lets also remember he is still better then Gomes and we would be getting him for basically nothing if it's Hesiey that we delt for him.
    It's just that Heisey might be a better player down the road and he's cheaper. He's about the same as Gomes offensively. The thought of doing this just reeks of making a move only for the sake of making a move.

  6. #35
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf371 View Post
    It's just that Heisey might be a better player down the road and he's cheaper. He's about the same as Gomes offensively. The thought of doing this just reeks of making a move only for the sake of making a move.
    To me this is a move to upgrade our LF position since our present manager doesn't see Heisey as the answer. Now Frazier or Yonder may be that answer next year, but for right now, it's hard to argue that Ludwick isn't an upgrade over Gomes or Lewis...

  7. #36
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    That Ryan Ludwick's name is being tossed out there makes sense. Cardinal connection to Jocketty? Check! Veteran creaminess for Dusty? Check!

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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    That Ryan Ludwick's name is being tossed out there makes sense. Cardinal connection to Jocketty? Check! Veteran creaminess for Dusty? Check!
    For some reason Dusty does seem to love that "Veteran Creaminess"....

  9. #38
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    To me this is a move to upgrade our LF position since our present manager doesn't see Heisey as the answer. Now Frazier or Yonder may be that answer next year, but for right now, it's hard to argue that Ludwick isn't an upgrade over Gomes or Lewis...
    A couple of things probably need to be pointed out. While Ludwick would be an upgrade it would not be a significant one.

    Here is Jonny Gomes OPS vs Lefties over the last 3 seasons

    2011 .972
    2010 .857
    2009 .914

    By contrast Ludwick is a career .763 OPS against lefties. So if you get right down to it what the Reds need in LF right now with their current configuation is a guy that can platoon and hit righties. I thought Fred Lewis would be the guy. So far it has not happened, but there are a lot of other things they could look at to fill that role before they trade for 4 months of Ryan Ludwick.

    The other thing is regardless of what you think of Heisey he has value. He can run, he can play defense and and most importantly he is cheap and under control for several more years. I would have no probably sending him in a package with some other guys for a signifcant piece like a front line starter or a Matt Kemp type bat, but moving him for 4 months of a marginal upgrade on a team that already leads all of baseball in runs seems like a misallocation of assets.

  10. #39
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    That Ryan Ludwick's name is being tossed out there makes sense. Cardinal connection to Jocketty? Check! Veteran creaminess for Dusty? Check!
    My previous post seems like a waste since I did not factor in Veteran creaminess. Some day I will learn. Move along, nothing to see here.

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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by krm1580 View Post
    A couple of things probably need to be pointed out. While Ludwick would be an upgrade it would not be a significant one.

    Here is Jonny Gomes OPS vs Lefties over the last 3 seasons

    2011 .972
    2010 .857
    2009 .914

    By contrast Ludwick is a career .763 OPS against lefties. So if you get right down to it what the Reds need in LF right now with their current configuation is a guy that can platoon and hit righties. I thought Fred Lewis would be the guy. So far it has not happened, but there are a lot of other things they could look at to fill that role before they trade for 4 months of Ryan Ludwick.

    The other thing is regardless of what you think of Heisey he has value. He can run, he can play defense and and most importantly he is cheap and under control for several more years. I would have no probably sending him in a package with some other guys for a signifcant piece like a front line starter or a Matt Kemp type bat, but moving him for 4 months of a marginal upgrade on a team that already leads all of baseball in runs seems like a misallocation of assets.
    But I don't think the Reds especially Dusty see the same value in Heisey that you point out here...

  12. #41
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by krm1580 View Post
    My previous post seems like a waste since I did not factor in Veteran creaminess. Some day I will learn. Move along, nothing to see here.
    In addition to spell check I run all my posts through Veteran Creaminess check before hitting the enter button.

    That being said it does seem like GMs like to deal for players they are familiar with. And it seems, to me anyway, that Dusty likes veterans. So a deal for Ryan Ludwick certainly would not surprise me.

    Honestly, if the powers that be have decided Heisey is a 4th or 5th outfielder and no more, go get Ludwick. Make the trade and don't look back.

  13. #42
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    I would rather give Heisey the oppurtunity to be our everyday left fielder than trade him for Ludwick.

  14. #43
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete4prez View Post
    I would rather give Heisey the oppurtunity to be our everyday left fielder than trade him for Ludwick.
    Well so would most common sensed people, but for whatever reason our Man Dusty has determined Heisey is just nothing but a role player at the end of the bench.

  15. #44
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    I'd rather give Heisey a chance. If that doesn't work out, bring up Dorn or Alonso or Francisco or a healthy Sappelt. Give some of these guys a chance. They have nothing left to prove in triple A. Find out what we got. We know we got in Gomes, Lewis, etc.

    Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  16. #45
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    Re: You wonder how true this is...would you do it?

    What does Ludwick bring to the table? He's not a very good player at this point in his career and only had one really good year and a couple of decent ones. Other than 08 his numbers are not much different than what Gomes has done in the past. I would much rather have Heisey but that is just me.


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