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Thread: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

  1. #31
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    it's safe to say they're back. finally. very happy for the Irish. Brian Kelly looks to be the best hire the Irish have had since Holtz.
    Bob Davie, Tyrone Willingham and Charlie Weis... that's damning with feint praise.

    This year's Notre Dame team appears to be really good. But I would ask them to do it for 2-3 years in a row before making the proclamation "they're back." Being an elite program is about sustaining it over several years.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  3. #32
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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I think if Notre Dame wins out, they'll play in the title game. Oregon's schedule is rather uninspiring and even though K-State is awesome, the BCS bias will put ND in the game, fair or not.
    They *might* pass Oregon, but little or no chance of passing Kansas State if K-State wins out. Kansas State has a very sizeable lead on Notre Dame in the BCS. Oregon's is fairly large as well, but not insurmountable. What hurts Notre Dame is that Oregon also plays USC, so their best opportunity for big wins would cancel each other out.

    While Notre Dame gets kicked in the rear by the computers the next three weeks playing Pitt, BC and Wake, Kansas State and Oregon will be helped if they beat: Oklahoma State, TCU and Baylor and USC, Stanford and Cal respectively. Then the final week, while Notre Dame has USC, Kansas State and Oregon still have Texas and Oregon State. The math says Notre Dame needs help to have any chance. They're not going to face Alabama unless the teams ahead of them lose.
    Last edited by Brutus; 10-28-2012 at 01:12 AM.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  4. #33
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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Bob Davie, Tyrone Willingham and Charlie Weis... that's damning with feint praise.

    This year's Notre Dame team appears to be really good. But I would ask them to do it for 2-3 years in a row before making the proclamation "they're back." Being an elite program is about sustaining it over several years.
    When you consider that Holtz left in 1996, that was quite a long time ago.

    I have no problem making the proclamation that "they're back." It's vague and merely means they're in the hunt, which they are. This is the best team the school has had in at least 10 years. Future recruiting classes will improve moving forward.

  5. #34
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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    When you consider that Holtz left in 1996, that was quite a long time ago.

    I have no problem making the proclamation that "they're back." It's vague and merely means they're in the hunt, which they are. This is the best team the school has had in at least 10 years. Future recruiting classes will improve moving forward.
    I agree with you on this year's team. The defense is dominant, especially the front seven.

    My point about the coaches though was that regardless of how long ago Holtz was there, Kelly is being compared against only three others (well, four if you count O'Leary).
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    They *might* pass Oregon, but little or no chance of passing Kansas State if K-State wins out. Kansas State has a very sizeable lead on Notre Dame in the BCS. Oregon's is fairly large as well, but not insurmountable. What hurts Notre Dame is that Oregon also plays USC, so their best opportunity for big wins would cancel each other out.

    While Notre Dame gets kicked in the rear by the computers the next three weeks playing Pitt, BC and Wake, Kansas State and Oregon will be helped if they beat: Oklahoma State, TCU and Baylor and USC, Stanford and Cal respectively. Then the final week, while Notre Dame has USC, Kansas State and Oregon still have Texas and Oregon State. The math says Notre Dame needs help to have any chance. They're not going to face Alabama unless the teams ahead of them lose.
    I feel more than confident that ND will pass Oregon if they go undefeated. I also feel strongly that ND will play in the title game if they win out, even. It's a big if though, as they have to take care of business the rest of the way.

  7. #36
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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I feel more than confident that ND will pass Oregon if they go undefeated. I also feel strongly that ND will play in the title game if they win out, even. It's a big if though, as they have to take care of business the rest of the way.
    That's just not practical.

    Again, the next three games: Pitt, BC and Wake. Meanwhile, Oregon will be facing USC, Stanford and Cal.

    If you were to rank those six teams in the BCS right now, here's how they rank:

    6. Boston College (108)
    5. Pittsburgh (90)
    4. Wake Forest (65)
    3. California (64)
    2. Stanford (17)
    1. USC (9)

    And for good measure, Kansas State is facing Oklahoma State (32), TCU (28) and Baylor (52). So if you ranked the nine opponents of those three teams, Notre Dame is literally facing the three worst in the BCS.

    I don't think you realize how absolutely brutal that will be against Notre Dame's computer rankings the next three weeks.

    Notre Dame isn't passing Oregon or especially Kansas State unless those teams lose. It's just not practical given the upcoming schedule.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    That's just not practical.

    Again, the next three games: Pitt, BC and Wake. Meanwhile, Oregon will be facing USC, Stanford and Cal.

    If you were to rank those six teams in the BCS right now, here's how they rank:

    6. Boston College (108)
    5. Pittsburgh (90)
    4. Wake Forest (65)
    3. California (64)
    2. Stanford (17)
    1. USC (9)

    And for good measure, Kansas State is facing Oklahoma State (32), TCU (28) and Baylor (52). So if you ranked the nine opponents of those three teams, Notre Dame is literally facing the three worst in the BCS.

    I don't think you realize how absolutely brutal that will be against Notre Dame's computer rankings the next three weeks.

    Notre Dame isn't passing Oregon or especially Kansas State unless those teams lose. It's just not practical given the upcoming schedule.
    I'm not one to make emphatic predictions typically, but I firmly believe Notre Dame will pass Oregon if they win out. It may even happen in a matter of hours. Obviously it's moot if Oregon loses, which is possible. I also believe Notre Dame will pass Kansas State if Notre Dame will win out as well.

  9. #38
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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I'm not one to make emphatic predictions typically, but I firmly believe Notre Dame will pass Oregon if they win out. It may even happen in a matter of hours. Obviously it's moot if Oregon loses, which is possible. I also believe Notre Dame will pass Kansas State if Notre Dame will win out as well.
    Based on what? I don't understand what dynamic you think would cause the BCS algorithm to bump Notre Dame ahead of Oregon over the course of the next month as you seem to be ignoring that Notre Dame's strength of schedule will directly hurt their BCS rankings and they're already behind Oregon to begin with. It's like someone saying there is nothing but a high pressure system over a specified area, but another person saying "yeah but I fully expect it to rain."

    Expecting Notre Dame to pass Oregon when all is said and done defies the algorithm. They are projected to narrowly pass Oregon in today's standings by both Jerry Palm and Brad Edwards, but the computers will take a pounding the next three weeks so when it's all said and done, they won't end up staying there absent an Oregon loss.
    Last edited by Brutus; 10-28-2012 at 11:35 AM.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #39
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    I was watching last nights game trying to figure out who ND looked like from years past. I thought maybe the 2002 OSU team because they really didn't dominate in one fashion or another and played a lot of close games. Then I thought back at the amount of overall talent on that OSU team and that dwarfs what ND currently has. Aside from their front 7 which is very good, the rest of the team is meh to me.

    At the beginning of the year their schedule looked tough. But as the games began to play out, not so much. Michigan and MSU have been utter disappointments this season. Miami is a .500 football same as BYU. The Stanford win will go down as a good win although Stanford scored in OT, nice job refs! The OU win is another good win, although Te'o didn't pick the pass off, nice job ref! I wouldn't be surprised if ND loses one of the next three games and do think they lose to USC to end the season. They have done a good job of winning ugly this season but I don't know if they can continue to do so.

    In watching this ND team I just don't think they are as good as the other top ranked teams and even one loss teams. I think if they do win out they will get a lot of cheer from the public but Oregon and KSU are in a class above ND right now. I also think a one loss LSU or UF are better teams than ND right now. The question is can their defense continue to dominate and can their offense continue to piece together enough points to win a football game?

  11. #40
    All Fired Up Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    At the beginning of the year their schedule looked tough. But as the games began to play out, not so much. Michigan and MSU have been utter disappointments this season. Miami is a .500 football same as BYU.
    But the fact of the matter is the Irish still beat four ranked teams. Judging by the "eye test", I believe that, as of right now, Alabama is the top team right now, but not head-and-shoulders above everyone else at all.

    That stated, the Tide's signature wins were against that same Michigan team on a neutral field and against Mississippi State at home. Other than SEC honks, who believes that Miss. State is all that?
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

  12. #41
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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    But the fact of the matter is the Irish still beat four ranked teams. Judging by the "eye test", I believe that, as of right now, Alabama is the top team right now, but not head-and-shoulders above everyone else at all.

    That stated, the Tide's signature wins were against that same Michigan team on a neutral field and against Mississippi State at home. Other than SEC honks, who believes that Miss. State is all that?
    Here are Mississippi State's wins thus far:

    Jackson State
    Troy
    South Alabama
    Middle Tennessee
    Auburn
    Kentucky
    Tennessee

    Yuck.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Based on what? I don't understand what dynamic you think would cause the BCS algorithm to bump Notre Dame ahead of Oregon over the course of the next month as you seem to be ignoring that Notre Dame's strength of schedule will directly hurt their BCS rankings and they're already behind Oregon to begin with. It's like someone saying there is nothing but a high pressure system over a specified area, but another person saying "yeah but I fully expect it to rain."

    Expecting Notre Dame to pass Oregon when all is said and done defies the algorithm. They are projected to narrowly pass Oregon in today's standings by both Jerry Palm and Brad Edwards, but the computers will take a pounding the next three weeks so when it's all said and done, they won't end up staying there absent an Oregon loss.
    See for yourself...

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/bcs

  14. #43
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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    That completely and utterly is avoiding the question. I said "when it's all said and done." You still haven't given any technical reasons why you think they'll stay ahead of Oregon, much less catch up with Kansas State.

    As I said two posts earlier, Notre Dame had a shot of narrowly passing Oregon this week (emphasis on narrowly as they are barely ahead), but the issue is that Notre Dame's BCS score will go down each of the next three weeks. They won't be ahead of Oregon in three weeks from now.

    Yes, they're ahead this week. They won't be in a week or two from now if Oregon keeps winning. I truly don't think you appreciate how the computers are going to influence the scores. Do you realize if Notre Dame's computer rankings drop an average of even one spot over the next three weeks (it will likely be an average of 2-3 spots), they would drop below Oregon? Their average would go from .9147 to .9014. Oregon is currently at .9136 and faces USC and Stanford the next two weeks. Again, dropping some is a mathematical certainty after facing Pitt, BC and Wake. Notre Dame does not have a chance unless they get help.
    Last edited by Brutus; 10-29-2012 at 11:35 AM.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #44
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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Notre Dame being in the NC game would be good for business. Don't under estimate that.

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    Re: 2011 Notre Dame Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    That completely and utterly is avoiding the question. I said "when it's all said and done." You still haven't given any technical reasons why you think they'll stay ahead of Oregon, much less catch up with Kansas State.

    As I said two posts earlier, Notre Dame had a shot of narrowly passing Oregon this week (emphasis on narrowly as they are barely ahead), but the issue is that Notre Dame's BCS score will go down each of the next three weeks. They won't be ahead of Oregon in three weeks from now.

    Yes, they're ahead this week. They won't be in a week or two from now if Oregon keeps winning. I truly don't think you appreciate how the computers are going to influence the scores. Do you realize if Notre Dame's computer rankings drop an average of even one spot over the next three weeks (it will likely be an average of 2-3 spots), they would drop below Oregon? Their average would go from .9147 to .9014. Oregon is currently at .9136 and faces USC and Stanford the next two weeks. Again, dropping some is a mathematical certainty after facing Pitt, BC and Wake. Notre Dame does not have a chance unless they get help.
    It certainly will depend on how close the scores are of each game. Notre Dame has a very good shot of playing in the national title game if they win out.


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