Alonso Defense

[cinreds21]

Just so we're operating with a full deck here -- has anyone actually watched Yonder play more than 2 or 3 times, or is this all based on "I went to a game a few Fridays ago and he looked terrible?"

This guy.

[GOYA]

has anyone actually watched Yonder play more than 2 or 3 times

I have. In person and television.

[dougdirt]

I have. In person and television.

Same here.

[Scrap Irony]

Just so we're operating with a full deck here -- has anyone actually watched Yonder play more than 2 or 3 times, or is this all based on "I went to a game a few Fridays ago and he looked terrible?"

Bunches.

[NJReds]

So if LF is not an option, do you guys who see Yonder quite often believe that the Reds best option is to boost his value in the minors and trade him in a package for ML talent?

I have to assume the Reds will do all in their power to keep Votto, so it doesn't seem like Alosno has a spot on the Reds roster anytime soon.

[Scrap Irony]

I'd deal him personally.

LA and Tampa Bay need a 1B of the future and have little in the pipeline at that position. And both have stuff the Reds could use right now.

[Caveat Emperor]

So if LF is not an option, do you guys who see Yonder quite often believe that the Reds best option is to boost his value in the minors and trade him in a package for ML talent?

Bad defense doesn't prevent lots of other people (including many Reds and former Reds) from playing LF -- I don't see why everyone is so hung-up on Alonso's defensive issues. Teams have been hiding good bats w/ bad gloves in LF for generations. The Reds don't need to re-invent the wheel here.

[GOYA]

But why put Yonder there when there are better options within the system for the Reds?

[dougdirt]

But why put Yonder there when there are better options within the system for the Reds?

Because it is arguable that there are actually better options. Sappelt is the only one with an argument in my opinion.

[Scrap Irony]

There are three questions on Alonso's move to LF:
1. Can his bat can carry his glove in LF? He'll have to OPS in the 850 OPS territory to be league average, IMO. I think he'll get there most years, but I don't think he'll ever be an Adam Dunn or Manny Ramirez offensively (which is what he'd need to be a true All-Star.)

2. Can someone else provide better value at the spot? Dave Sappelt has just as good offensive numbers and should play LF like a CF. He and Alonso are the same age, so there's little problem there. His reworked swing has gone on a 920 OPS tear over the past 700 ABs. (Alonso's past 700 ABs: around an 850 OPS.)

3. Is someone else willing to pay for Alonso as a 1B, his natural position? And, if so, what are they willing to give up? Tampa is looking for a 1B of the future (though Kotchman is looking like a great signing.). So is LA. LA needs to get rid of some salary as well. A deal of Alonso, Heisey, Grandal/ Mesoraco, and Janish for Furcal and Kemp makes sense for me. It's something that makes sense for LA too, IMO.

[Caveat Emperor]

2. Can someone else provide better value at the spot? Dave Sappelt has just as good offensive numbers and should play LF like a CF. He and Alonso are the same age, so there's little problem there. His reworked swing has gone on a 920 OPS tear over the past 700 ABs. (Alonso's past 700 ABs: around an 850 OPS.)

Sappelt's a little kid (5'9") with mediocre pedigree -- I want to see a full season in AAA before I'm willing to bet anything more than a $1 on him being anywhere close to a .900 OPS bat.

[Scrap Irony]

But he doesn't have to be a 900 bat to be better than Alonso (or any other LFer in the Red system). He's going to be an average to plus defender in LF, so all he's got to do is OPS around 820 to provide major positive value.

[Caveat Emperor]

But he doesn't have to be a 900 bat to be better than Alonso (or any other LFer in the Red system). He's going to be an average to plus defender in LF, so all he's got to do is OPS around 820 to provide major positive value.

And I guess this is where our little debate ends, because I think defensive metrics are completely out of whack when it comes to placing value on LF defense. Bad gloves get hidden there for a reason -- great defense simply doesn't make as big a difference in LF as it does other places on the diamond, and bad defense doesn't hurt nearly as badly.

[krm1580]

And I guess this is where our little debate ends, because I think defensive metrics are completely out of whack when it comes to placing value on LF defense. Bad gloves get hidden there for a reason -- great defense simply doesn't make as big a difference in LF as it does other places on the diamond, and bad defense doesn't hurt nearly as badly.

I would agree. The big joke before this season was how bad the Cardinals defense was going to kill them with guys like Berkman playing right and Theriot playing SS and they are still 20 runs better than the Reds when it comes to runs allowed.

If we played someplace like Colorado or San Diego where there was acres of outfield to cover I could understand the concern with him in LF. It would not be that big a deal if he played LF here.

[GOYA]

they are still 20 runs better than the Reds when it comes to runs allowed.

You think pitching might have more to do with that?