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Thread: The Bullpen

  1. #1
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    The Bullpen

    Time to pile on the bullpen. It's hurt the Reds in a number of recent games, from the five-run comeback by LA, to several extra innings games, to last night's game in SF.

    Arredondo, Ondrusek, Bray, Masset, Cordero, have all had their bad moments. And Dusty seems to have made a number of wrong choices, for example, Arredondo last night.

    Fisher and Horst are just waiting for Lecure and Chapman to replace them IMO.

    The bullpen's ERA (not the best measure perhaps) is 3.54, ninth in the league, not a tragedy, but not superior.

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  3. #2
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    Re: The Bullpen

    I don't think it's a matter of piling on but of honest assessment. One thing we didn't do is replace Arthur Rhodes. I think WJ handled Arthur rightly but we just haven't replaced what he gave the team. Masset has been, IMO, the key problem; he's not stepped up to take over that set-up role in the way we all would have hoped. That said, bullpens are notoriously erratic and we probably simply had too much riding on Masset. Bray, Ondrusek, and LeCure have all pitched better, again IMO, than expected, and I do think LeCure's return will help. Arredondo probably should be in AAA; he got forced up by the option situation rather than according to the timetable he needed. Fisher, Horst, and Smith are all, I fear, never going to be better than marginal. I still have some hopes for Smith because of his consistent ability to sink the ball. Chapman, of course, was no where near ready for what this org. thought he could contribute; I don't blame him for that. It's a matter of FO judgment. Cordero has been a bright spot, and I think the org. is going to have to consider very seriously bringing him back next year. Can you imagine what this bullpen would be like without him?

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    Re: The Bullpen

    The bullpen has given up a few runs lately, but hard to blame them last night.

    The double by Torres was as lucky a double as you will ever see, and the single which scored the 4th run was a bloop hit. Those types of things happen.

  5. #4
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    Re: The Bullpen

    The bullpen is the least of the Reds worries right now.

  6. #5
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    Re: The Bullpen

    I don't think the bullpen is really a problem. Most nights they pull through. They had been overworked, now they are underworked and I still don't think Dusty has figured out how to properly use them. Only having one LHP in the pen is hurting this team in the sense Dusty has trouble picking the right pitcher for.the right situation. Arredondo struggling recently compounds the issue.
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  7. #6
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis View Post
    I don't think the bullpen is really a problem. Most nights they pull through. They had been overworked, now they are underworked and I still don't think Dusty has figured out how to properly use them. Only having one LHP in the pen is hurting this team in the sense Dusty has trouble picking the right pitcher for.the right situation. Arredondo struggling recently compounds the issue.
    The Reds have two lefties in the pen--Bray and Horst.
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  8. #7
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    Re: The Bullpen

    The bullpen last year, outside of Cordero, were pretty good at not walking people. The bullpen this year, outside of Cordero, is walking too many people.

    Bullpens are every single GMs kryptonite. It is just really difficult to get consistency in performance out of bullpens due to variation.
    Can't win with 'em

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  9. #8
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    Re: The Bullpen

    One thing that I noticed is the Giants pen looked nearly unhittable. I know the Reds got a hit or two here or there, but their pen looked lights out.

  10. #9
    Designated Threadkiller LincolnparkRed's Avatar
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    One thing that I noticed is the Giants pen looked nearly unhittable. I know the Reds got a hit or two here or there, but their pen looked lights out.
    Not on Saturday. I think the point above was valid. All bullpens struggle the trick is to have it limited to one guy at a time.
    Climbing down from the bridge, but keeping the torch lit until Dusty's fate is settled

  11. #10
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Bullpens are all volatile.

    Best plan is to score enough runs so it doesn't matter that much.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  12. #11
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Bullpens are all volatile.

    Best plan is to score enough runs so it doesn't matter that much.
    Not buying this. There are good bullpens, average bullpens, subpar bullpens. The Reds' this year is average at best.

    For comparison, the Braves' pen is 13-9 with a 2.54. The Padres' pen is 12-10 with a 2.40. The Reds' is 10-14 with a 3.59.

    The 14 losses by the Reds' pen is tied for the most bullpen losses in the NL.

    Reds' pen has walked far more guys than any other NL bullpen. Reds pen has walked 115. NL average is 81. Brewers pen has walked 61. Rockies 58. Reds have 4.69 walks per nine innings, highest in NL.

    Reds pen has allowed 20 homers, only Cubs and Rockies have more.

    Reds' FIP for the bullpen is worst in the NL. 4.18.
    Reds' xFIP for the bullpen is worst in the NL. 4.17.

    I've always felt a reliever should have a WHIP of 1.3 or below. Here are the WHIPs for the main relievers (15 appearances or more).

    Cordero 0.82
    LeCure 0.97
    Bray 0.99
    Ondrusek 1.10

    Masset 1.50
    Arredondo 1.66
    Chapman 2.00
    Smith 2.00

    Here are some BB/9 rates for Reds relievers -

    Arredono - 7.82
    Masset - 4.67
    Chapman - 13.85
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-13-2011 at 05:40 PM.

  13. #12
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Bullpens are volatile.

    That means its production will ebb and flow during the season. The Reds bullpen is ebbing right now.

    A few weeks ago, they were one of the best in the majors.

    I like the talent the Reds have in the bullpen. I'm not worried about it going forward.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  14. #13
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Bullpens are volatile.

    That means its production will ebb and flow during the season. The Reds bullpen is ebbing right now.

    A few weeks ago, they were one of the best in the majors.

    I like the talent the Reds have in the bullpen. I'm not worried about it going forward.
    115 bullpen walks in mid June is cause for worry.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-13-2011 at 05:59 PM.

  15. #14
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    Re: The Bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    115 bullpen walks is cause for worry.
    I agree. The current pen needs to work on throwing strikes.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.


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