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Thread: I'm not sold on the Pirates

  1. #61
    Have Faith In Dusty DGullett35's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    Im more scared of the brew crew than the Buccos. Brewers are playing decent baseball
    "Losing feels worse than winning feels good." -Vin Scully

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  3. #62
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    Beware hubris.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  4. #63
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    I'm not necessarily scared of the Pirates this year, but their future is looking pretty bright.
    Go BLUE!!!

  5. #64
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    There sure are alot of prognosticators on this board.

    Pirates tied for Reds in 1st place. Yet everyone criticizes the Pirates and applauds the Reds for their talent. Hmmm.

    Might as well give Clint Hurdle the MOY right now. If the Pirates are so bad, then why are they tied for 1st? And if the Reds are so great, how did they let this happen?

    Reds have problems. You might want to open your eyes.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  6. #65
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    There sure are alot of prognosticators on this board.

    Pirates tied for Reds in 1st place. Yet everyone criticizes the Pirates and applauds the Reds for their talent. Hmmm.
    The magic is in the pythag, but keep trying

  7. #66
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    The magic is in the pythag, but keep trying
    Keep trying?

    I think it's the Pirates that continue to try and succeed and the Reds that aren't playing up to expecations.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  8. #67
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Keep trying?

    I think it's the Pirates that continue to try and succeed and the Reds that aren't playing up to expecations.
    The franchise that has 19 straight losing seasons is trying to succeed more than the Reds?
    "In our sundown perambulations of late, through the outer parts of Brooklyn, we have observed several parties of youngsters playing 'base', a certain game of ball. Let us go forth awhile, and get better air in our lungs. Let us leave our close rooms, the game of ball is glorious"
    -Walt Whitman

  9. #68
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Keep trying?

    I think it's the Pirates that continue to try and succeed and the Reds that aren't playing up to expecations.
    And they'll continue to succeed -- until they don't anymore. Despite what I'm sure will be protestations to the contrary, 1-run games are basically a crap shoot. The Pirates are 17-10 in 1 run games. That is not likely to continue. Every single time this happens, somebody wants to make the argument that this time is different. This team is special. They aren't. The hitting has been a bit unlucky. The pitching has been a bit luck. But their Pythag is right in line with their talent level.

    This was the exact same story as last year. Eventually, getting outscored equates to losing. The more games you play, the less likely it is that the cumulative lucky bounces continue to go your way. Sure, it's theoretically possible the luck will continue. And it's possible that the team plays better moving forward. But if the Pirates continue to score and allow runs like a 74 win team, the will not win the division. And if the Reds continue to play like an 85 win team, they'll be in the hunt, but unlikely to run away from anybody.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 06-11-2012 at 11:52 AM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #69
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    I believe we covered thus pythag thing here before (as far back 2004)?and still I haven't seen these magic beans that no one but the 87 Twins have found.

    Beat the pythag, the pyrite of fandom

  11. #70
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Season debut. He pitched in five games for the Braves last season.
    I didn't realize that. Regardless, he looks like he's going to be a beast.
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

  12. #71
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    Even if one is looking beyond the obvious pythag issues, the Reds last won the division in 2010. The Pirates in 1992. And you wonder why one would be inclined to think the Reds are more likely to succeed than the Pirates?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  13. #72
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds Freak View Post
    The franchise that has 19 straight losing seasons is trying to succeed more than the Reds?
    Good job twisting my words around.

    I never said the Reds didn't want to succeed. I only said they weren't playing up to expectations.

    Reds are underachieving (according to most on this board).

    Pirates are overachieving.

    The question is: What if the Reds continue to underachieve and the Pirates continue to overachieve?

    Oh yeah. It won't happen because.....uh.....oh......uh.......it just won't happen.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  14. #73
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Good job twisting my words around.

    I never said the Reds didn't want to succeed. I only said they weren't playing up to expectations.

    Reds are underachieving (according to most on this board).

    Pirates are overachieving.

    The question is: What if the Reds continue to underachieve and the Pirates continue to overachieve?

    Oh yeah. It won't happen because.....uh.....oh......uh.......it just won't happen.
    And my point in this is that I don't think the Pirates are "overachieving". I think they're still UNDER-achieving. Their pitching is legit. I haven't seen many argue that point otherwise. Burnett & Bedard have had some poor seasons of late, but they've both got a ton of talent. The rest of the staff is coming along and they've got 2 studs waiting in the wings. As good as our bullpen is...the Pirates are right there with us IMO. I don't think their pitching has been "lucky"...I think they're simply good.

    The reason I say they're underachieving is their hitting. They've had 2 seasons in a row where their hitters have struggled mightily. They've got some bats over there that have some ability. But right now only McCutchen and Walker are playing well. If their batters come back to just their career norms, the team will improve. The hitters have been extremely unlucky IMO.

    And to be clear, no...I don't think they win the division. I do think they'll end up in second place (behind us) and above .500 though.
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

  15. #74
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    I'm not sold on the Pirates, but I'm not sold on the Reds either. The Cardinals are still the favorites to win the division, IMO. The Reds just aren't a very good team as they are currently constructed. The starting pitching is inconsistent, and the offense is beyond frustrating to watch. The Reds have lost so many games this season because the offense couldn't take advantage of a great scoring opportunity. The Reds have to acquire someone to get on base in front of Votto or a big bat for cleanup, and another starting pitcher is needed too (Chapman? I know, it's never going to happen).
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  16. #75
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not sold on the Pirates

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I'm not sold on the Pirates, but I'm not sold on the Reds either. The Cardinals are still the favorites to win the division, IMO. The Reds just aren't a very good team as they are currently constructed. The starting pitching is inconsistent, and the offense is beyond frustrating to watch. The Reds have lost so many games this season because the offense couldn't take advantage of a great scoring opportunity. The Reds have to acquire someone to get on base in front of Votto or a big bat for cleanup, and another starting pitcher is needed too (Chapman? I know, it's never going to happen).
    Sadly agreed. I wouldn't be shocked to see the division come down to the Cardinals and Brewers.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."


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