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Thread: Bullpen usage

  1. #1
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    Bullpen usage

    I haven't notice much complaining about the bullpen usage this year. I'm assuming it is because Dusty really hasn't had many choices in the past with everyone being worn out, that he had to use any player at all times.

    But we are past that point of using any warm body.
    Here are my questions I would ask Dusty:

    Why is Arredondo one of the first guys our of the pen in a close game? You do realize in 18 innings he has given up 14 walks and 16 hits? The guy is as unreliable as Chapman yet, he's your ace in the hole.

    Why does Bill Bray continue to face only LH'ers? Not to hammer Arredondo here (but I just have his stat page up), but Jose is allowing RH'ers to hit .222/.378/.361/.739 off of him. The LH'ed Bray is allowing RH'ers to hit .150/.244/.225/.469 off of him, let alone the .440 OPS LH'ers have off of him.

    I would say the usage of Arredondo has been my biggest issue with the pen. How he continues to get important innings is beyond me, while Bray continues to face one lefty and gets pulled. Oddly enough, the one time Bill does get used a lot this month, was twice in the same day. I don't get it.

    Also the lack of Jeremy Horst was confusing too.

    I think Dusty just thinks LHP are for left handed hitters only. It baffles me sometimes.

    Anyway, just looking to voice my opinion to the world on this one. Have a good week.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Bullpen usage

    Regarding Bray, his career has shown that he is more suited for a loogy role than a full time reliever. The fact that he is effective v RHH this season might be a product of the way he is being used this season, not in spite of it.

    Agree on Arredondo, I've ha about enough of his close game appearances.

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    Re: Bullpen usage

    I was wondering the same thing during the game yesterday with regards to Arredondo, then realized it was only the 6th innings. That is why...your lower tiered middle relievers are going to pitch those innings.

    I could be wrong, but of late Arredondo has been used in close games in extras or still early in the game, sometime's a manager cannot avoid it. He could bring Masset or Ondrusek out in the 6th, but managers rarely, if ever operate that way.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Bullpen usage

    Arrendondo whould not have been in that game yesterday. LeCure should have gone for the 6th and 7th. I don't why Dusty has this fascination with him but he needs to get over it now. Arrendondo should be the long man be used like Fisher was or preferrably Horst.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Bullpen usage

    I'd love to see Boxberger fast-tracked. He's destroying AA.

    In terms of how Dusty uses the guys he has, I think it's hard to complain much. Just look at the innings totals for the 5 guys who have been up all year:

    Masset, 40
    Ondrusek, 38.1
    Cordero, 34.1
    Bray, 26.1
    Arrendondo, 19.2

    The most effective guys have gotten the most innings, save for the sole lefty with the .110 OPS split for his career. He's been good this year, but be very wary of small sample size here. His .194 BABIP vR and .222 vL suggest he's benefiting from a solid dose of good fortune.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Bullpen usage

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I'd love to see Boxberger fast-tracked. He's destroying AA.

    In terms of how Dusty uses the guys he has, I think it's hard to complain much. Just look at the innings totals for the 5 guys who have been up all year:

    Masset, 40
    Ondrusek, 38.1
    Cordero, 34.1
    Bray, 26.1
    Arrendondo, 19.2

    The most effective guys have gotten the most innings, save for the sole lefty with the .110 OPS split for his career. He's been good this year, but be very wary of small sample size here. His .194 BABIP vR and .222 vL suggest he's benefiting from a solid dose of good fortune.
    To truly compare though, Arrendondo wasn't up at the beginning of the year. I think he came up around May 1?
    So he's gotten his 19 2/3 in about 2/3 of the games. That puts him at roughly 4th, ahead of Bray and behind Cordero.
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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Bullpen usage

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    Arrendondo whould not have been in that game yesterday. LeCure should have gone for the 6th and 7th. I don't why Dusty has this fascination with him but he needs to get over it now. Arrendondo should be the long man be used like Fisher was or preferrably Horst.
    Not sure that Lecure was available. I blame Yesterday's loss on Volquez. His poor start Friday resulted in the nutty pen usage on Sunday.

    Wanna fix the pen? Get better starters.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Bullpen usage

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Not sure that Lecure was available. I blame Yesterday's loss on Volquez. His poor start Friday resulted in the nutty pen usage on Sunday.

    Wanna fix the pen? Get better starters.
    I think Dusty will save LeCure for Volquez' starts until Volquie either proves he doesn't need to or is sent back down.

    "Okay you guys, pair up in threes!" --Yogi Berra

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Bullpen usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    To truly compare though, Arrendondo wasn't up at the beginning of the year. I think he came up around May 1?
    So he's gotten his 19 2/3 in about 2/3 of the games. That puts him at roughly 4th, ahead of Bray and behind Cordero.
    Oops. Thought he was up at the beginning. That certainly changes the picture a bit. That said, I'm not sure who else we would have Dusty use. I guess I wouldn't mind seeing him take advantage of guys like LeCure and Fisher and have them give him 2-3 innings at a time. On a day when the starter only gets through 5, a real long man could go a ways towards easing the burden.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Bullpen usage

    Sergio Mitre anyone?
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Bullpen usage

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Not sure that Lecure was available. I blame Yesterday's loss on Volquez. His poor start Friday resulted in the nutty pen usage on Sunday.

    Wanna fix the pen? Get better starters.
    He should have been. He pitched two innings Friday and was off Saturday. I would think he could have gone at least one inning. Probably didn't matter anyway. Overall I think Dusty has used the bullpen well. I just got irritated with him bringing in Arrendondo in a very winnable game.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Bullpen usage

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Sergio Mitre anyone?
    He's got some weird stats. His ERA has been good the last 2 years, but he doesn't strike anybody out and has benefited from some lucky BABIP. There are worse long relief options out there, but I don't see him as an upgrade here. I'm surprised the Brewers we willing to DFA him -- I'm guessing they'll get something in return for him.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. #13
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Bullpen usage

    Don't look now, but Sam LeCure is having a great year! Two more strong innings, 3.78 K/BB, 8 Ks per 9.

    Of course, two balls were crushed and fell just short of home runs....
    Can't win with 'em

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    Re: Bullpen usage

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Not sure that Lecure was available. I blame Yesterday's loss on Volquez. His poor start Friday resulted in the nutty pen usage on Sunday.

    Wanna fix the pen? Get better starters.
    The starters have been providing much more innings for quite a while now, and is one of the reasons the bullpen has been so good this year.

  16. #15
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    Re: Bullpen usage

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Oops. Thought he was up at the beginning. That certainly changes the picture a bit. That said, I'm not sure who else we would have Dusty use. I guess I wouldn't mind seeing him take advantage of guys like LeCure and Fisher and have them give him 2-3 innings at a time. On a day when the starter only gets through 5, a real long man could go a ways towards easing the burden.
    I agree in that case that it's hard to find a good arm to pitch the 6th inning. That's one of the reason's I think the standard "Quality Start" definition has its uses. How many times did a pitcher get the game to the back end of the bullpen and not get blown out.

    In the Sunday game, Arredondo was probably the best of a lot of bad options. You know Bray, Masset, and Cordero aren't coming in. You're left with Lecure(who you may need if the game goes long) Chapman(not so much)Ondrusek(who would be a good idea, but you don't want to burn through your high leverage guys in the 6th inning too often) and Arredondo.

    I guess I'd prefer Ondrusek or Lecure, but I can understand the reasons for not wanting to use them there.

    Part of the reason Bray is only brought in versus lefties is a self fulfilling prophecy. While he doesn't have the huge split this year, he's still been exceptionally tough on left handed batters. So you don't want to bring him in the 6th or even the 7th if there is one lefty bat you'll need him to neutralize.

    IMO, the best way to handle this is to have a general idea which inning you'll use him, and pitch him for the full inning rather than bringing him in mid inning to pitch to one or two batters. It seems as though that's what the Reds did with Rhodes last season.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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