I'm dying to read some reaction from the RZ faithful...
Hard to believe, IMO, and how quickly they reached such a verdict!!
I'm dying to read some reaction from the RZ faithful...
Hard to believe, IMO, and how quickly they reached such a verdict!!
I think she probably killed her.
I don't think the prosecution proved that.
Yep. Not beyond a reasonable doubt.Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27
The jury instructions for reasonable doubt from a trial I had:
"...reasonable doubt is not just any kind of doubt, but is instead doubt that is based upon reason and common sense and not based purely upon speculation..."
People are misunderstanding the burden of the State -- it is not incumbent upon the State to erase all doubt from the minds of the jury or to account for all possible defense theories of the case. The State merely must prove all elements of the offense to such a degree that any common sense doubt or doubt based upon reason is erased from the mind of the jurors.
Doubt exists with everything. Confessions can be doubted. Eyewitness testimony can be doubted. The question is whether or not your common sense and reason, as a juror (or as a armchair juror, sitting at home following from afar), leads you to conclude that doubt exists.
Where is the reasonable doubt in this case? Where is the alternative theory of the case that fits with reason and common sense? Call me biased, but I just don't see it. I can get behind reasonable doubt on the premeditation element of the offense -- I don't know that the State presented enough evidence to convince me that this was all planned out in advanced -- but the underlying crime? Incredibly guilty. I just don't see where the common sense, reasoned doubt exists in this case.
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do i think its likely she killed or knows who did or what happened? yes. The problem is the prosecution did not have:
1. cause of death
2. witnesses of the death
3. location of the death
4. murder weapon
5. confession
im not a lawyer, but w/o at least 1 or 2 of those things its pretty much impossible to get a murder conviction, and I pray it stays that way.
Murder convictions are obtained, routinely, around the nation with none of the 5 thing you listed.
The only one of the 5 that would give me a moment's pause would be the cause of death, but the circumstantial evidence involved (not the least of which was the fact that the corpse was found with duct tape over her mouth) would lead me to pass that over as a major issue with the State's case.
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You get convictions all the time without that stuff. In the case locally here of Erica Baker in 1999 they never even recovered the body yet got a murder conviction
This.
/thread.
Considering all the facts and circumstantial evidence, I was expecting at least a finding of Manslaughter and Felony Child Abuse. That she got neither is pretty appalling.
But that's all it was...circumstantial.
The prosecution got too aggressive. They should have gone for a lesser charge and they probably would have gotten it. They went big and didn't have the smoking gun so to speak.
I agree that the prosecution shot too high, but the jury would have been well within their rights to find her guilty on lesser charges. The fact that the verdict was reached so quickly tells me this option wasn't even given serious debate (if it was debated at all).
Last edited by WMR; 07-05-2011 at 05:41 PM.
Thats what happens when someone covers up the death for a month.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change, the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
At times it seemed like the prosecution was to busy trying to prove to the jury that she was a liar, and forgot to prove to them that she was a murderer.
During my 18 years I came to bat almost 10,000 times. I struck out about 1,700 times and walked maybe 1,800 times. You figure a ballplayer will average about 500 at bats a season. That means I played seven years without ever hitting the ball. ~Mickey Mantle, 1970
Yep, exactly.
I believe the prosecuters needed to work harder to prove motive. It would have been difficult. Maybe it is too difficult to prove in these kind of cases.
"I am your child from the future. I'm sorry I didn't tell you this earlier." - Dylan Easton
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