Worst Thing That Happened Was Winning Division In 2010

[Vottomatic]

I wouldn't want to throw away last year's pennant.

BUT........I'm in the camp that thinks Dusty is overrated. I don't care if he had won more games than any manager in history, no manager/head coach in my 46 year lifetime has made me scratch my head more. Most of the teams he's had over the years, had great players and were destined to win.

He may be good for team chemistry, but he babysits his players feelings too much. Frankly, if I played on one of his teams, I'd be pissed at how long he leaves a pitcher in when everyone in the stadium can see that the wheels are falling off but Dusty. Or I'd be pissed that he's continuing to start a .190 hitting left fielder for 2 1/2 months that is probably costing us wins when we clearly have better options on the roster. I'd be pissed at alot of moves he makes.

I've said it before. This team has won despite Dusty. He's just lucky to have had talented teams.

[brm7675]

This might be the most ignorant thread i've seen. If you really think Dusty Baker is the problem with the Reds, then you haven't watched much baseball. The simple fact of why they are losing games is either the pitchers give up to many runs, and the fact that when they get very few runs they don't score. I don't think going to the playoffs is going to set us back, and Walt was probably gonna give him an extension anyways. "I think we got here sooner than a lot of people thought -- to the playoffs," general manager Walt Jocketty said. "I think a lot of it is due to Dusty's leadership."

I would break it down 40% GM fault, 40% Manager/Coaches fault and 20% players fault.

[redbear1986]

Can we simply include fans in any upcoming player trades? I suspect that Logan Morrison and a PTBNL for Wood and a train-full of shortsighted bandwagon "trailblazers" might be worth a phone call. Though on the way to Miami they might all cry "mutiny" and try to replace the train conductor.

[DocRed]

Dusty is getting WAY too much leash from the success of last year....

[redbear1986]

much better argument thesis than Baker needs to go.

[FireDusty]

I'm 46. I grew up with teams that considered the season a failure if they won 91 games and were swept in the playoffs.

Young Reds fans who have the expectations of...well.....young Reds fans....would be happy to just have a winning season and a sweep in the playoffs.

BakerMetrics strikes again tonight.

Instead of having a lefty that throws 100 mph ready to go in case Coco ran into trouble, Chapman didn't even get a call from the dugout to even pick up a ball. BakerMetrics.

The result was predicatble. Because Coco is a former Brewer and Dusty wanted to stroke the ego of Cordero, he turned the game over to Coco because he didn't want to embarrass him by taking him out and having Chapman face Fielder. Even if Chapman walks Fielder, he is facing the lefty Kotsay instead of Cordero. It isn't about winning with Dusty. It's about stroking ego's. He doesn't want to win any way he can, Dusty wants to determine how he wins. BakerMetrics.

The result was predictable.

BakerMetrics.

This team will never realize it's potential with Dusty Baker managing this club.

Worst manager of a Reds team with talent in franchise history.

[FireDusty]

Can we simply include fans in any upcoming player trades? I suspect that Logan Morrison and a PTBNL for Wood and a train-full of shortsighted bandwagon "trailblazers" might be worth a phone call. Though on the way to Miami they might all cry "mutiny" and try to replace the train conductor.

Went to my first game in 1970. Watched a hall of fame manager for nearly a decade. Watched more very good managers after that. Seen so many games and watched so many managerial decisions, from personel decisions to in game strategy.......that the games number over 10,000. The individual situations over 250,000.

Dusty Baker manages against conventional wisdom more than any manager I have ever seen. His in game strategy is pathetic and has been called out by former players and managers numerous times. His player personel decisions are driven by emotional loyalties & personal friendships more than they are about what is best for the team.

Dusty owes his career record as a manager to the fact that he managed 2 steroid super stars in 2 cities with mega payrolls. Whenever Baker has been asked to actually manage, strategize and get more out of less, he has failed miserably and been promptly run out of town.

The same will happen here. Sadly, it will be a blown window of opportunity for the Reds as it will take 2 or 3 more years to extricate him.

[redlegs2370]

How is this Dusty's fault? Until this recent road trip Cordero had been fantastic. Who else would you put in at the end of the game. It is not Dusty's fault that guys don't come through from time to time. This is the team that Dusty has been dealt. There is not a lot of margin for error with this team. We know that Rolen has a bad shoulder (which limits his production from time to time), Bruce & Stubbs are still young players who are going to have peaks and valleys, the pitching staff is relatively young and besides Arroyo they are going to have peaks and valleys. Arroyo has, for the most part, been a 2nd half pitcher. I could go on but my point is Dusty can't be blamed for lack of performance by his players. Bottom line is the Reds are a small market team who can't just go out and replace players who aren't producing & another manager isn't going to suddenly make Janish a .300 hitter, Homer not give up HR's, Volquez find the strike zone, Gomes start to hit consistently, etc..

[BAKER12]

Updated standings by the baseball "experts on here
Reds team 44-0
Dusty 0-46

[redlegs2370]

Dusty owes his career record as a manager to the fact that he managed 2 steroid super stars in 2 cities with mega payrolls. Whenever Baker has been asked to actually manage, strategize and get more out of less, he has failed miserably and been promptly run out of town.
.

Could the same be said for TLR when he was at Oakland & St. Louis? The Cardinals new stadium is built on steroid performance.

The fact is most of Baker's tenure as a manager has been in the steroid era. I'm sure you could say that many managers in the last 15 years won because of steroid superstars.

[FireDusty]

How is this Dusty's fault? Until this recent road trip Cordero had been fantastic. Who else would you put in at the end of the game. It is not Dusty's fault that guys don't come through from time to time. This is the team that Dusty has been dealt. There is not a lot of margin for error with this team. We know that Rolen has a bad shoulder (which limits his production from time to time), Bruce & Stubbs are still young players who are going to have peaks and valleys, the pitching staff is relatively young and besides Arroyo they are going to have peaks and valleys. Arroyo has, for the most part, been a 2nd half pitcher. I could go on but my point is Dusty can't be blamed for lack of performance by his players. Bottom line is the Reds are a small market team who can't just go out and replace players who aren't producing & another manager isn't going to suddenly make Janish a .300 hitter, Homer not give up HR's, Volquez find the strike zone, Gomes start to hit consistently, etc..

Ummm, we have a left hander....ummm....who has thrown the fastest pitch in the history of the game.(that only dates back into the 1860's, sorry for the poor sample size) ummm...sorry....I'll calm down......sitting in the bullpen...who didn't even warm up.

Umm...that's how it's Dusty's fault.

[FireDusty]

Could the same be said for TLR when he was at Oakland & St. Louis?

Yes.

Next question.

[FireDusty]

Updated standings by the baseball "experts on here
Reds team 44-0
Dusty 0-46

Now you are starting to get it.

[R_Webb18]

how many teams pull the closer there?

o btw not asking if u should.

[FireDusty]

how many teams pull the closer there?

o btw not asking if u should.

The good ones.

Maybe Rivera gets a pass there and Girardi sticks with, but even Girardi would be tempted when he saw that his closer had nothing. Lets not forget, no team in the history of baseball has ever had the option of a left hander who has thrown the fastest recorded pitch ever. We do, and he didn't even pick up a ball. He didn't even have his jacket off.

Pretty unique situation. Hard to determine who would do what with their closer in that situation because noone in the history of the sport has ever had a guy sitting in the bullpen like the Reds do.