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Thread: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

  1. #16
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    Move the Jays to the New York area to create some real rivalries
    Go Gators!

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  3. #17
    Member harangatang's Avatar
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    Baseball in Montreal is like hockey in Atlanta. The population in the metro area is sufficient to support a team, but the demographic isn't correct.

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  5. #18
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Montreal didn't support their team either with the exception of a 5 year period out of 35, it's not all Bud and Loria's fault they cratered.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...7080/index.htm
    But in that five-year period, they were either second, third, or fourth in NL attendance every year. By comparison, the Reds haven't finished fourth in attendance since 1992. They haven't had a 5-year period finishing in the top 4 every year since the 1970s. Washington finished 6th in attendance last year after finishing in the bottom half seven of their first eight years. Tampa has finished in the bottom half every year except their first year, including finishing 9th out of 14 one year after making the world series. THAT would never have happened in Montreal.

    By far, the he biggest problem in Montreal was spelled L-O-R-I-A. We have 12+ years of data in Miami to drive that point home: http://www.baseball-reference.com/te...A/attend.shtml

    With decent ownership in Montreal, I think the comp you're likely to see is this one: http://www.baseball-reference.com/te...N/attend.shtml

    With exceptional ownership, the sky is the limit. For example: http://www.baseball-reference.com/te...A/attend.shtml

    Some of us have forgotten how close teams in San Francisco, and to a lesser extent Seattle, came to moving a couple decades ago. It seems absurd in retrospect that markets so large teetered on the verge of losing their teams. It's amazing what a little competence and good luck can provide.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

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    Revering4Blue (01-14-2014), westofyou (01-14-2014)

  7. #19
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    But in that five-year period, they were either second, third, or fourth in NL attendance every year. By comparison, the Reds haven't finished fourth in attendance since 1992. They haven't had a 5-year period finishing in the top 4 every year since the 1970s. Washington finished 6th in attendance last year after finishing in the bottom half seven of their first eight years. Tampa has finished in the bottom half every year except their first year, including finishing 9th out of 14 one year after making the world series. THAT would never have happened in Montreal.

    By far, the he biggest problem in Montreal was spelled L-O-R-I-A. We have 12+ years of data in Miami to drive that point home: http://www.baseball-reference.com/te...A/attend.shtml

    With decent ownership in Montreal, I think the comp you're likely to see is this one: http://www.baseball-reference.com/te...N/attend.shtml

    With exceptional ownership, the sky is the limit. For example: http://www.baseball-reference.com/te...A/attend.shtml

    Some of us have forgotten how close teams in San Francisco, and to a lesser extent Seattle, came to moving a couple decades ago. It seems absurd in retrospect that markets so large teetered on the verge of losing their teams. It's amazing what a little competence and good luck can provide.
    Cleveland and the Chicago White Sox were also candidates to move to St. Petersburg before new stadiums and expansion came along. And weren't the Reds once rumored to move to San Diego in the '60s. I think the difference is that, in those cases, MLB either took steps that encouraged the team to stay put or took a neutral stance. In Montreal's case, MLB actually took an active role in moving the team. They could have just as easily pushed Loria to sell the Expos.

    I think the two factors that led to the downfall of the Expos (the 1994 strike hurt a lot of teams) were Loria and issues with the retractable roof at Olympic Stadium that lead to its permanent closure. With a supportive owner and a new stadium, I think the Expos could have been one of the more successful franchises in the league.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  8. #20
    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    If you win they will come. Bottom line the Expos didn't win after 1994. Loria was the big reason they didn't win as has been mentioned by others. Also that God-awful stadium had a huge effect. It was a cavern that had no soul or character to it. Montreal was so debt ridden by the 1976 Olympics it could never afford to build a proper stadium. I think a tax referendum did appear for the citizens one time for a stadium but it was defeated and that spelled the end of the Expos in Montreal. I have no idea why MLB didn't try to get an owner that would keep the team in Montreal? Maybe it was the stadium issue? But it seemed like MLB was bound and determined to move them by the late 90's. I'm glad they did as they moved to DC and I have been able to watch MLB in person and not have to drive and hour and half to Baltimore. I do think with the right parameters (Good ownership and stadium) Montreal would support a MLB team. Because when they had winning teams they drew very well.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  9. #21
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    I would love to see Montreal with a team. A road trip to see the Reds there would be a lot of fun. Tampa Bay, eh, it's nice enough as a city but in the summer not really an attraction.

    This has been my completely selfish take on the matter.
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  10. #22
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    One thing you have to remember if you want to put a team in MON is that it's a hockey town like PIT is a Steelers town. That's not to say there aren't baseball fans there. MON always got dumped on for drawing poorly but I always thought the ones that came were great fans. MLB in MON is doable but nowdays you have to have a big TV deal to play with everyone else.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  11. #23
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    Always wanted to see baseball go to 32 teams, have four 4-team mini-divisions in each league (much like the NFL) and no wildcards. Not sure MLB will ever expand again unless it somehow goes truly international at some point in the future.

  12. #24
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    One thing you have to remember if you want to put a team in MON is that it's a hockey town like PIT is a Steelers town. That's not to say there aren't baseball fans there. MON always got dumped on for drawing poorly but I always thought the ones that came were great fans. MLB in MON is doable but nowdays you have to have a big TV deal to play with everyone else.
    I think the owners of the Rangers are doing pretty well in a football town. Ditto, the Rockies. Hell, the Rockies don't even have to win games and they still draw. In a market that big, you can do fine if your ownership is competent and MLB allows a stadium to get built with private financing (because the city won't pay... goof for them).

    One other factor that hurt the Expos and the Blue Jays in the late 1990s and early 2000s was the weak Canadian dollar. Not really a problem anymore.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  13. #25
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    Always wanted to see baseball go to 32 teams, have four 4-team mini-divisions in each league (much like the NFL) and no wildcards. Not sure MLB will ever expand again unless it somehow goes truly international at some point in the future.
    I'd love to see expansion. I'd do away with divisions though and play a balanced schedule in each league. No interleague either. Just put the best 'x' teams in each league in the postseason
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  14. #26
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    I'd love to see expansion. I'd do away with divisions though and play a balanced schedule in each league. No interleague either. Just put the best 'x' teams in each league in the postseason
    If you play a completely balanced schedule, why do you need postseason? Whoever has the best record should win the league championship and go to the World Series.

  15. #27
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    I'd love to see expansion. I'd do away with divisions though and play a balanced schedule in each league. No interleague either. Just put the best 'x' teams in each league in the postseason
    If there's expansion there will be another offensive explosion that everyone will blame on sports drugs.

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  17. #28
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    If you play a completely balanced schedule, why do you need postseason? Whoever has the best record should win the league championship and go to the World Series.
    I'm all about trying to find a balance between what is the most fair and what is the best generator of revenue and fan interest. It was a LOT more fair pre-1969 when the best team in each league just went to the series. But it's just bad business to have 75% of your teams mathematically eliminated in August. So while I recognize that you need to have at least 4 teams in each league to get into to the post-season, I'd rather those teams at least be the best 4+ teams in their respective leagues. For example, I think it's a joke that so many "experts" regard the 2012 Angels season as a dismal failure when they were significantly better than the Tigers, who had a worse record in a worse division.

    I also get sick of seeing the Reds playing the same teams over and over. I get totally sick of Red Sox/Yankees. Playing each team 10 or 11 games per year is enough. And no interleague.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008

  18. #29
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Expos' failure due to MLB's economic imbalance

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    If there's expansion there will be another offensive explosion that everyone will blame on sports drugs.
    I agree this will happen initially, but it will settled down in a couple years.
    ". . . acquiring J. Blanton from Oakland for, apparently, Bailey/Cueto, Votto and a lesser prospect. I do it in a second . . . The Reds' equation this year is simple: Make Matt Belisle your #3 starter . . . trade for Blanton, win 85 or more, be in the mix all summer." - Paul Daugherty, Feb. 8, 2008


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