Turn Off Ads?
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 74

Thread: Dusty Baker

  1. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    8,788

    Re: Dusty Baker

    I thought this was very interesting. CTrent retweeted this, which I take as an endorsement that he pretty much feels how many at RZ do...

    MisterRedlegs Good? Sure. He knows his clubhouse, players, but gets too rigid on roles, matchups. RT @bendeclue: Do you think [Baker's] a good manager?

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #32
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,188

    Re: Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22 View Post
    Timing issue asside, this thread is necessary. A thread devoted to the pros/cons of Dusty has been missing since the afterglow of last year.

    Personally, I think the manager makes little difference in the outcome of a season. There are probably hundreds of stats people can use to compare managers, but the majority will have some flaws. Comparing manager to manager is jedi vs pokemon (sample sizes with the same team, different teams, using strategies based on current roster, etc. etc.) *Sample size noted* Baker is toting a 13-21 record in one loss games. He might not need to be fired, but debate is understandable.
    I don't understand why it's "necessary" to have to rail on Dusty. Don't mistake that as saying there's anything wrong with having the conversation, but you make it out to be a requirement just because he was celebrated last year, therefore he has to be criticized this season.

    My question is: do you think the 13-21 record in 1-run games is indicative of his managerial ability? If so, wouldn't it be more prudent to see what his record is over the course of his career and compare it to other successful (and not-so successful) peers?

    I'm not adverse to the idea that a manager's (limited or otherwise) ability to effect the outcome of a game can be manifested in 1-run games. I just think if there is anything to it, that's something we can get a better sense of by looking at a broader range of games. Managerial ability probably doesn't change much from season-to-season, especially not nearly as much as performance on the field which is susceptible to psychological impacts, injuries, etc.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  4. #33
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,150

    Re: Dusty Baker

    I don't have a problem with any of Dusty's moves this season until today's. All the previous ones had a logical explanation and most often are just Monday morning quarterbacking.

    But this one was inexcusable, and a result of two major flaws that Dusty has.

    1. Keeps players in their roles until they prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they don't deserve that role anymore.

    2. Believes that a team should have only one closer.

    The problem that I had with bringing Cordero in was not that he had pitched in the last two days, but that he had pitched terribly in the last two days. He clearly didn't have his best stuff and with the All-Star break coming up, the logical thing to do was to give him some long rest.

    One additional point, is that Cordero has always been a decent closer, but never a great one. Streaks like these are normal for him, as it is normal for him to bounce back and reel off a dozen or so great outings. I have faith that Cordero will be a decent closer the rest of the season, but that does mean a few more streaks like the one he just had.
    "I donít know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody".
    óBill Cosby

  5. #34
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    3,344

    Re: Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by alexad View Post
    FIRE DUSTY! This team needs someone like Billy Martin as the manager. Kick someones butt and take names later. He has this team Oma complete mess. The bullpen is a mess.
    His name is Pete MacKanin...he is the right guy the same way Special K was and is the right guy.
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

  6. #35
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,288

    Re: Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I thought this was very interesting. CTrent retweeted this, which I take as an endorsement that he pretty much feels how many at RZ do...

    MisterRedlegs Good? Sure. He knows his clubhouse, players, but gets too rigid on roles, matchups. RT @bendeclue: Do you think [Baker's] a good manager?
    That Dusty is a good manager?

  7. #36
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Green Country
    Posts
    2,716

    Re: Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    We need a manager that throws a tantrum after a tough loss. It helps the players hit and pitch better the next day. Right now we just have broadcasters that throw hissy fits, but Brennaman hissy fits are largely ineffective unless they are sleekly coordinated with a managerial tirade in the clubhouse.
    Managerial incompetence trumps tantrums and team meetings. I suggest the next time Dusty calls a closed door session to discuss team performance, he point the microscope back at himself to start with.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  8. #37
    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    6,063
    As long as there is semi-intelligent discussion instead of just venting without any thought behind it, I'll probably be OK with the thread.

  9. #38
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    447

    Re: Dusty Baker

    In real-life situations, but not on this message board, I've been an ardent and loyal defender of Dusty's since he became Reds manager.
    The ninth inning today marked the first time I found myself thinking that as good a person as he seems to be, it's time for him to go.

  10. #39
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Mason, OH
    Posts
    11,830

    Re: Dusty Baker

    Generally speaking, I can usually understand the moves that Dusty makes.

    He's loyal to his players almost to a fault. When the game unfolds, I can plug the situation into my DustyMoves v1.0 app and out spits his move. You can't say that he isn't predictable.

    Most of the time, he wants to show a player that he has confidence in him in a certain role at a certain time. Which often times works out and he really is a player's manager.

    But I my app busted on him putting in Cordero today. Dusty is an intelligent man and it seemed blatantly obvious that Cordero was out of gas. Dusty has proved his loyalty to Cordero time and time again and he didn't need to today. Today was the day to say "he's not pitching today" and brought in Masset or Ondrusek. It wouldn't have been a disloyalty to Cordero.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  11. #40
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,288

    Re: Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    Generally speaking, I can usually understand the moves that Dusty makes.

    He's loyal to his players almost to a fault. When the game unfolds, I can plug the situation into my DustyMoves v1.0 app and out spits his move. You can't say that he isn't predictable.

    Most of the time, he wants to show a player that he has confidence in him in a certain role at a certain time. Which often times works out and he really is a player's manager.

    But I my app busted on him putting in Cordero today. Dusty is an intelligent man and it seemed blatantly obvious that Cordero was out of gas. Dusty has proved his loyalty to Cordero time and time again and he didn't need to today. Today was the day to say "he's not pitching today" and brought in Masset or Ondrusek. It wouldn't have been a disloyalty to Cordero.
    Ondrusek, when today would have been 5 straight games?

  12. #41
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    8,788

    Re: Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    That Dusty is a good manager?
    That he puts too much emphasis on roles and matchups unnecessarily.

  13. #42
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    24,879

    Re: Dusty Baker

    Dusty has his flaws, just like any other manager does. He's a good manager though, and in fact I love the fact that he learns from his mistakes. He's a better manager now than he was in Chicago or San Francisco.

  14. #43
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,516

    Re: Dusty Baker

    We can go one by one and ridicule every player/manager for a move that they made during the 2011 season. Things happen. I don't think the Reds are floundering in 4th place because of Dusty...it is because of lack of execution.

    For crying out loud, what would the reaction be on here had Dusty done what LaGenius did the other night...eliminating NeckTat from the game cause he flubbed the lineup card at the start. Seriously...the board would have crashed.

    Dusty has his pros and cons, just like anyone.

    /But yeah he screwed up pitching Cordero Sat night. No debate needed.

  15. #44
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    5,815

    Re: Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Ondrusek, when today would have been 5 straight games?
    Ondrusak only threw 7 pitches Friday and 14 pitches Saturday,

    Bill Bray only threw 6 pitches Friday and 10 pitches Saturday, per Lance McAlister's blog.

    The blame for today's loss should be laid at the feet of Dusty Baker.

  16. #45
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,516

    Re: Dusty Baker

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Ondrusak only threw 7 pitches Friday and 14 pitches Saturday,

    Bill Bray only threw 6 pitches Friday and 10 pitches Saturday, per Lance McAlister's blog.

    The blame for today's loss should be laid at the feet of Dusty Baker.
    It is never that simple.

    Devil's Advocate: How much blame does Bruce get for getting thrown at at third?


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25