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Thread: Choko is a joke.

  1. #1
    HS Athletic Director alexad's Avatar
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    Choko is a joke.

    Time for a change. Way to go Dusty. Run him out there everyday. Great. Super.
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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    Three this week, three in a row. I usually don't get upset enough to post anything, but Cordero has been flat out awful, and Dusty keeps running him out there. Unacceptable on both ends.
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    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    This loss falls squarely on Dusty even though Coco was the one pitching. He clearly didn't have it yet Dusty left him out their to implode. Why not at least let Masset take his shot? Cordero has done very well this year but trotting him out there today was simply a bad idea; staying with him was even worse.

  5. #4
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    I usually excuse losses. Usually it's just the way the ball bounces.

    Today was absolutely ridiculous. The Reds should refund my EI package for this.

    Coco, overused this weekend and ineffective goes out there. Day before the ASB. Whole staff is available.

    Lefty hitters galore hit in the ninth. Yet Bray is sitting in the bullpen.

    Masset doesn't even get into the game.

    This weekend was the most maddening weekend. The players must be upset. I know the fans are.

    The Reds are simply giving games away. Just giving them away.

  6. #5
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    Other than this ONE SERIES, Cordero has been fantastic all year long. This loss is totally on Dusty IMO. He shouldn't have used him yesterday to begin with. He had a 5 run lead and had just thrown 30+ pitches the day before. He should've sat last night in favor of Carlos Fisher (who never even got used during his callup). But because he used him last night...now he DEFINITELY should've been off-limits today. The 9th should've belonged to Masset tonight without question. This one is TOTALLY on Dusty...not Cordero.
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  7. #6
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexad View Post
    Time for a change. Way to go Dusty. Run him out there everyday. Great. Super.
    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    This loss falls squarely on Dusty even though Coco was the one pitching. He clearly didn't have it yet Dusty left him out their to implode. Why not at least let Masset take his shot? Cordero has done very well this year but trotting him out there today was simply a bad idea; staying with him was even worse.
    Cordero has pitched great this year until lately.

    I'm with reds1869, I blame this strictly on Dusty for being so dogmatic in his roles. If a guy doesn't have it or has been overworked, get him the heck out of there.

    And he burned him last night, with no reason.

    Even a third inning of Chapman would have resulted in a victory, IMO.

  8. #7
    "A Rose by Any Other. . " RedRoser's Avatar
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    Dontrelle Willis deserved to get a win in this game. Just plain unacceptable. Reds need 1) a new manager and 2) a new closer. I vote for 1) almost anyone else and 2) Chapman or Massett, preferably Chapman.

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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    How long before this thread gets closed down?

    As someone else suggested, I don't blame Cordero, I blame Dusty here. 3 days in a row (including 1 in a non-save situation) and 4 out of the last 5 and some of those innings weren't short. The dude is gassed.

  10. #9
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Other than this ONE SERIES, Cordero has been fantastic all year long. This loss is totally on Dusty IMO. He shouldn't have used him yesterday to begin with. He had a 5 run lead and had just thrown 30+ pitches the day before. He should've sat last night in favor of Carlos Fisher (who never even got used during his callup). But because he used him last night...now he DEFINITELY should've been off-limits today. The 9th should've belonged to Masset tonight without question. This one is TOTALLY on Dusty...not Cordero.
    Cordero's FIP is the highest it's ever been with the Reds. He's been awful all year, just extremely lucky. And his luck is running out.

    He's probably the worst reliever on the Reds.

  11. #10
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Other than this ONE SERIES, Cordero has been fantastic all year long. This loss is totally on Dusty IMO. He shouldn't have used him yesterday to begin with. He had a 5 run lead and had just thrown 30+ pitches the day before. He should've sat last night in favor of Carlos Fisher (who never even got used during his callup). But because he used him last night...now he DEFINITELY should've been off-limits tonight. The 9th should've belonged to Masset tonight without question. This one is TOTALLY on Dusty...not Cordero.
    Not really. The loss is also on Cordero.

    I've been a Coco supporter but this season - even when successful - he has been pitching on guile and experience. He does not have top end stuff anymore.

    The Reds haven't needed a closer too much lately. This series they finally did. They had two games with a modest lead in the ninth and he blew them both for losses.

    Coco hasn't been overworked generally. This weekend he was finally needed and he pitched horribly.

    The manager and the closer are both to blame.

  12. #11
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Cordero's FIP is the highest it's ever been with the Reds. He's been awful all year, just extremely lucky. And his luck is running out.

    He's probably the worst reliever on the Reds.
    I'm tending to agree with you about the lucky thing. Always an adventure with Cordero.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
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  13. #12
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Not really. The loss is also on Cordero.

    I've been a Coco supporter but this season - even when successful - he has been pitching on guile and experience. He does not have top end stuff anymore.

    The Reds haven't needed a closer too much lately. This series they finally did. They had two games with a modest lead in the ninth and he blew them both for losses.

    Coco hasn't been overworked generally. This weekend he was finally needed and he pitched horribly.

    The manager and the closer are both to blame.
    On the money!
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  14. #13
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Not really. The loss is also on Cordero.

    I've been a Coco supporter but this season - even when successful - he has been pitching on guile and experience. He does not have top end stuff anymore.

    The Reds haven't needed a closer too much lately. This series they finally did. They had two games with a modest lead in the ninth and he blew them both for losses.

    Coco hasn't been overworked generally. This weekend he was finally needed and he pitched horribly.

    The manager and the closer are both to blame.
    That's the way I see too.

  15. #14
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    Cordero has always struggled pitching 3 consecutive days. Dusty is supposed to be a master at putting guys in a position to succeed. He didn't. Sure, Cordero shares some blame. But how much can you can you blame a guy for not doing something he's not really capable of doing?

    Dusty had two chances to avoid it today; not pitching him to begin with and getting him out of there where he clearly didn't have it. He failed in both.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  16. #15
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Choko is a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Cordero has always struggled pitching 3 consecutive days. Dusty is supposed to be a master at putting guys in a position to succeed. He didn't. Sure, Cordero shares some blame. But how much can you can you blame a guy for not doing something he's not really capable of doing?

    Dusty had two chances to avoid it today; not pitching him to begin with and getting him out of there where he clearly didn't have it. He failed in both.
    Do you have any stats, for his career, that show he's "struggled" when pitching 3 consecutive games?

    His career stats based on zero days rest show his strikeout and walk rates are extremely similar to that of 1 day rest and better than that of 2 days rest. So I'm curious where people are getting this perception that seems otherwise uncorroborated.

    I'll offer a theory: Cordero's rates haven't been dominant to begin with, so the effects of balls in play just tend to even out a bit more after 3 consecutive appearances and it seems like he's struggling. The reality is that his fielding independent metrics aren't a ton different.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


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