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Thread: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

  1. #16
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    This is why the organization has to consider the idea of moving Mesoraco off catcher and letting Grandal play there.
    I like your thinking there...although I think Mez deserves a shot to parlay his efforts to improve his defense into an MLB role for a few years.
    2015 Rotation: Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Leake, Cingrani

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  3. #17
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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Quote Originally Posted by NorrisHopper30 View Post
    Bowden said that? Trade Mesoraco now
    Yeah, I wish he'd stop hovering the Reds. It's unhealthy.
    2015 Rotation: Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Leake, Cingrani

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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    This is why the organization has to consider the idea of moving Mesoraco off catcher and letting Grandal play there.

    Let him prove that he is a legit middle of the order hitter in the major leagues first. A few years catching is not going to ruin he career.

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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Let him prove that he is a legit middle of the order hitter in the major leagues first. A few years catching is not going to ruin he career.
    Sure -- no decision needs to be made until it's clear Grandal is ready.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Sure -- no decision needs to be made until it's clear Grandal is ready.
    A difficulty is with what Mes can play. I'm assuming 1b the's only thing he can play other than C. Is that right? If so, we run into the same problem--i.e. Votto--that we already have with Alonso. But of course that may take care of itself. One thing I like is your apparent enthusiasm for Grandal. It bothers me that he's always being mentioned in trades planned by RZers. I think he's a terrific prospect, who's made probably as much progress in his first year since being drafted as anybody in recent Reds history not named Leake.

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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    A difficulty is with what Mes can play. I'm assuming 1b the's only thing he can play other than C. Is that right? If so, we run into the same problem--i.e. Votto--that we already have with Alonso. But of course that may take care of itself. One thing I like is your apparent enthusiasm for Grandal. It bothers me that he's always being mentioned in trades planned by RZers. I think he's a terrific prospect, who's made probably as much progress in his first year since being drafted as anybody in recent Reds history not named Leake.
    I'd be very disappointed if we traded Grandal anytime soon, I think he's going to have a strong major league career. The easy fix, although probably not feasible, is to teach one of these guys to play 3B since we have an abundance of talent behind the plate.

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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Quote Originally Posted by partisan View Post
    I'd be very disappointed if we traded Grandal anytime soon, I think he's going to have a strong major league career. The easy fix, although probably not feasible, is to teach one of these guys to play 3B since we have an abundance of talent behind the plate.
    Agree with you about Grandal but I don't think it's easy to teach anybody to play 3b.

  9. #23
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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Quote Originally Posted by partisan View Post
    I'd be very disappointed if we traded Grandal anytime soon, I think he's going to have a strong major league career. The easy fix, although probably not feasible, is to teach one of these guys to play 3B since we have an abundance of talent behind the plate.
    Good hitting catchers are very rare. Good hitting third basemen with below average defense are not so rare. Trading Grandal isn't a knock on his future, it's just likely the means that we'll get the best value out of him.

  10. #24
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Moving one of these good hit, good field catchers to another position to shoehorn them onto the team is like painting over an original Picasso because the style doesn't fit your decor. Sell the Picasso and you can get all the "Dogs Playing Poker" prints you want (which is akin to what a good catcher becomes when his glove becomes a question mark at 3B and his offensive comparison pool is elevated to the 3B group).
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Moving one of these good hit, good field catchers to another position to shoehorn them onto the team is like painting over an original Picasso because the style doesn't fit your decor. Sell the Picasso and you can get all the "Dogs Playing Poker" prints you want (which is akin to what a good catcher becomes when his glove becomes a question mark at 3B and his offensive comparison pool is elevated to the 3B group).
    For me, it comes down to an evaluation of the bats. Is Mesoraco a potential all-star bat? If the answer to that is yes (remember, you help his bat by moving him off catcher), AND you know Votto can't be extended beyond his current contract, then you have to consider moving Mesoraco to 1B (or LF) down the line and trading Votto instead. Simple as that. You bring talent to the team via what you get for Votto and what you save by dealing him. Chances are that's better talent than what you get by moving Mesoraco or Grandal.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  12. #26
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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    For me, it comes down to an evaluation of the bats. Is Mesoraco a potential all-star bat? If the answer to that is yes (remember, you help his bat by moving him off catcher), AND you know Votto can't be extended beyond his current contract, then you have to consider moving Mesoraco to 1B (or LF) down the line and trading Votto instead. Simple as that. You bring talent to the team via what you get for Votto and what you save by dealing him. Chances are that's better talent than what you get by moving Mesoraco or Grandal.
    Why would you move Mesoraco to first when we still have Alonso? We could move Grandal and Votto if that's what you wanted to do, and that would be a haul for the ages.

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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Why would you move Mesoraco to first when we still have Alonso? We could move Grandal and Votto if that's what you wanted to do, and that would be a haul for the ages.
    Well, you could then trade Alonso in a package now to get something else you need, keep Votto through 2013, then move Mesoraco to 1B and bring up Grandal to catch. If that is the route that you wanted to take.

  14. #28
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    At 1B, these guys become just another guy (kind of like Alonso is now). At Catcher, they are special.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  15. #29
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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    At 1B, these guys become just another guy (kind of like Alonso is now). At Catcher, they are special.
    I think that on a pure bat basis, Devin Mesoraco > Yonder Alonso. I think that Mesoraco has a legit .290 bat with 30 HR's if you take him off the catcher position and can play him every day. At catcher, you are taking about 100-125 PA away from him and he probably becomes a .280/20-25 guy. I don't see Grandal having the bat to play at first base.

  16. #30
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    Re: 2011 Futures Game on ESPN2

    I think that on a pure bat basis, Devin Mesoraco > Yonder Alonso. I think that Mesoraco has a legit .290 bat with 30 HR's if you take him off the catcher position and can play him every day. At catcher, you are taking about 100-125 PA away from him and he probably becomes a .280/20-25 guy. I don't see Grandal having the bat to play at first base.
    I agree with this in theory. Don't know about the exact numbers. Mesoraco may have a legit 1st base bat if you take him off catcher. Better than Alonso. And you have to accept the possibility that Alonso may be able to survive in LF, given all the time he's had out there.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini


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