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Thread: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

  1. #1
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    Been meaning to ask this for awhile...

    Is Walt going to actually make a move to improve the big league club at some point? He stood pat this winter which has proven to be a huge mistake...

    Are we just going to continue to hoard these prospects until time immemorial?

    Nothing more frustrating than a minor league system chock full of pieces and a big league club with GLARING (and I mean GLARING) holes.
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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Been meaning to ask this for awhile...

    Is Walt going to actually make a move to improve the big league club at some point? He stood pat this winter which has proven to be a huge mistake...

    Are we just going to continue to hoard these prospects until time immemorial?

    Nothing more frustrating than a minor league system chock full of pieces and a big league club with GLARING (and I mean GLARING) holes.
    Can I ask what those glaring holes actually are?

    I know SS is the big one, but I'd be curious as to the others.

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    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Can I ask what those glaring holes actually are?

    I know SS is the big one, but I'd be curious as to the others.
    Do you think that 3rd base is starting to become a glaring hole? Rolen still gives the Reds awesome defense. I was amazed at the defensive non-play that Rolen made this week against the Cardinals that led to the Cardinals run. That was amazing range and skill Rolen showed. Yet, I'm looking at his batting stats and it almost looks like an anemic position at this point, offensively speaking. Can the Reds sustain lackluster offense at 3rd base? I would also say Left Field would be a big issue for the Reds as well.
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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Do you think that 3rd base is starting to become a glaring hole? Rolen still gives the Reds awesome defense. I was amazed at the defensive non-play that Rolen made this week against the Cardinals that led to the Cardinals run. That was amazing range and skill Rolen showed. Yet, I'm looking at his batting stats and it almost looks like an anemic position at this point, offensively speaking. Can the Reds sustain lackluster offense at 3rd base? I would also say Left Field would be a big issue for the Reds as well.
    The Brewers have McGehee, Betancourt, Lucroy and Gomez. The Cards have Theriot, Descalso and Schumaker. The Pirates have Cedeno, Overbay and Tabata.

    Every team has a few warts. Just because some are screaming about certain things doesn't make them true.

    Most on this team have had their own moments this season. Votto is a little off the pace in the SLG dept. BP has fallen off since April. SS has been disasterous. Rolen has been an issue. LF has been pretty mediocre overall. Stubbs has been...you know. Jay has been largely missing, save for one month. Hanigan has been nothing special. Ramon has been great.

    Wood..no. Arroyo..no. Leake has been largely good. Cueto even better. Volquez, disaster. Homer, injuries. Masset mostly good except for a few appearances early on. Cordero the same, just later on the issues. Logan, good. Bray, good. Chapman, either legendary or awful.

    I think the struggles this season have mostly been a compilation of issues from many different contributors. It's easy to harp on a few areas, however those "glaring holes" may not be as large of an issue as some other areas we have witnessed.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Can I ask what those glaring holes actually are?

    I know SS is the big one, but I'd be curious as to the others.
    Starting pitcher. Middle of the order bat. Starting Pitcher.
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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Do you think that 3rd base is starting to become a glaring hole? Rolen still gives the Reds awesome defense. I was amazed at the defensive non-play that Rolen made this week against the Cardinals that led to the Cardinals run. That was amazing range and skill Rolen showed. Yet, I'm looking at his batting stats and it almost looks like an anemic position at this point, offensively speaking. Can the Reds sustain lackluster offense at 3rd base? I would also say Left Field would be a big issue for the Reds as well.
    I hesitate to say this, because inevitably it will provoke a comment about not trusting UZR, but right now, Rolen's WAR is 1.2 -- which is slightly above average. So despite his hitting being down, he's still picking it with the glove enough to be an above average player rather than a "glaring hole."
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    While there may be glaring holes, there are not glaring solutions for those holes. (Or at least not now that Cozart is up). The prospects can not be moved unless someone is willing to move the right piece back and the trade market sounds thin this year.

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    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    I hesitate to say this, because inevitably it will provoke a comment about not trusting UZR, but right now, Rolen's WAR is 1.2 -- which is slightly above average. So despite his hitting being down, he's still picking it with the glove enough to be an above average player rather than a "glaring hole."
    Brutus, you have no argument for me on UZR. Old school fielding stats should be thrown out in my opinion. I guess my question in terms of Rolen is does his excellent defense make up for his lack luster bat? Is there a point where the lack of offensive production at a position that is supposed to produce offensively becomes a liability despite the defense at that position? I'm just seeing right now an almost easy out in the Reds lineup at that position.
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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Brutus, you have no argument for me on UZR. Old school fielding stats should be thrown out in my opinion. I guess my question in terms of Rolen is does his excellent defense make up for his lack luster bat? Is there a point where the lack of offensive production at a position that is supposed to produce offensively becomes a liability despite the defense at that position? I'm just seeing right now an almost easy out in the Reds lineup at that position.
    I suppose it depends on the accuracy of UZR. If it's pretty accurate, then statistically, I guess it does make up for it. Janish was so bad it didn't. But Rolen is barely adequate enough offensively that he's not giving away runs, if we accept that UZR is in the ballpark of his defensive contributions thus far.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  11. #10
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    I think we are likely to sit on them. I just don't believe for a second that the Reds have the money to acquire an impact talent this season which means no trading of prospects for help.

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think we are likely to sit on them. I just don't believe for a second that the Reds have the money to acquire an impact talent this season which means no trading of prospects for help.
    If Cincy really wants an impact talent, they just have to pony up the prospects. The more the prospects, the less money they will have to take on.

  13. #12
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    It's not like the Reds have been sitting on their hands with their prospects while other teams are making deals. Nobody in MLB is making deals. I infer from the lack of trade movement that there must not be any sellers yet. Can't make a deal without a trading partner!

    I wonder sometimes how much of the MLB-wide inertia is posturing related to the impending CBA negotiations.
    Last edited by Unassisted; 07-10-2011 at 09:26 PM.

  14. #13
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    It's not like the Reds have been sitting on their hands with their prospects while other teams are making deals. Nobody in MLB is making deals. I infer from the lack of trade movement that there must not be any sellers yet. Can't make a deal without a trading partner!

    I wonder sometimes how much of the MLB-wide inertia is posturing related to the impending CBA negotiations.
    Disagree. They sat on Cozart when it was obvious he was on fire and the other guys weren't doing the job. They sat on these guys in the off-season when it was obvious they needed help.

    Its not about no deals in May, its about no deals in December IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  15. #14
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Disagree. They sat on Cozart when it was obvious he was on fire and the other guys weren't doing the job. They sat on these guys in the off-season when it was obvious they needed help.

    Its not about no deals in May, its about no deals in December IMO.
    I'm not sure that it was so obvious that they needed help. Most pundits had them as the winner of the division.

    And I'm not sure what the smart move would have been in December anyway.

  16. #15
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: What is the end game with all these top prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    The Brewers have McGehee, Betancourt, Lucroy and Gomez. The Cards have Theriot, Descalso and Schumaker. The Pirates have Cedeno, Overbay and Tabata.

    Every team has a few warts. Just because some are screaming about certain things doesn't make them true.

    Most on this team have had their own moments this season. Votto is a little off the pace in the SLG dept. BP has fallen off since April. SS has been disasterous. Rolen has been an issue. LF has been pretty mediocre overall. Stubbs has been...you know. Jay has been largely missing, save for one month. Hanigan has been nothing special. Ramon has been great.

    Wood..no. Arroyo..no. Leake has been largely good. Cueto even better. Volquez, disaster. Homer, injuries. Masset mostly good except for a few appearances early on. Cordero the same, just later on the issues. Logan, good. Bray, good. Chapman, either legendary or awful.

    I think the struggles this season have mostly been a compilation of issues from many different contributors. It's easy to harp on a few areas, however those "glaring holes" may not be as large of an issue as some other areas we have witnessed.
    You're right, the Brewers and Cardinals have big time weak spots too, that's why nobody is running away with it. However, the core of those two teams are more dependable, consistent, and productive than this team's core. Outside of Votto, who is an absolute lock to produce, day in, day out? I love Jay Bruce and the player he's turning into, but his streaks are well documented.


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