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Thread: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

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  1. #1
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    Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    IMO the two catchers are the Reds' top prospects right now.

    I have no doubt that any team offering a high end starting pitcher will insist on Mesoraco in the trade. I don't believe for a minute that a high end pitcher is coming for Alonso, Volquez, Travis Wood as the featured player. They will all want Mes.

    The Reds could try to construct a package offering Grandal. That may bring a lesser pitcher. Or it may require the Reds giving up more talent (Stubbs, perhaps).


    So the question is presented whether the Reds should trade Mes if necessary to land a high end pitcher.

    Or, should they trade Grandal for perhaps a somewhat lesser pitcher. Or Grandal may require giving up someone like Stubbs.

    Or, is it premature to trade either. Hold on to both of them and see who pans out.

    My view is that I wouldn't trade Mes, and I would only trade Grandal for a high end pitcher. I think these two guys are very valuable and (through a position change) both could be regulars for the Reds soon.

    But I realize that holding on to these prospects could eliminate the big trade.

    Views?
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-18-2011 at 12:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    I think the Votto-Phillips-Rolen window is coming to a close. Rolen may already be done and Phillips may be gone after next year and Votto in a couple more. I think the Reds should do everything they can to be the best team they can in this window.

    I believe the best way to improve this year is to add an ace. The quotes coming out of Denver seem to infer that O'Dowd is at least listening to offers for Ubaldo, even though he is currently asking for a "Hershel Walker" return. That may be a lot to give up, but I believe the Reds should do it. The best part of trading with the Rockies is that they already have a big-time C prospect. We could probably give them a Francisco+Alonso to take the place of Mesoraco. I think we align very well with them if they believe the good times of Wood and Volquez in the bigs.

    If Walt can convince O'Dowd that Volquez and Wood are MLB pitchers worthy of a spot in the Rockies' rotation and then give them our AAA depth which they could use on the big team, I really think the Reds should go for it.

    Getting back to your original point, though, I would deal Mes or Grandal in the right deal. Ramon looks like he could have another year in him (granted probably not going to be as good as this one) and Mes and Grandal's values are at an all-time high. I wouldn't deal either of them for a non-ace (a Guthrie type), but I would include them in a haul for a Anibal Sanchez or Felix Hernandez. I think some of these teams are looking for good young depth, with which the Reds can provide them.

    I really believe Walt should be active now trying to allow Votto, Phillips and Rolen the chance of winning a World Series in the Queen City.

  3. #3
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    I wouldn't trade either one.
    Championships Matter.
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  4. #4
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I wouldn't trade either one.
    Sure, I wouldn't "want" to trade either, also, but you have to give up value to get value. The Reds' are at a relative surplus of catching. Grandal and Mesoraco could be the two best catchers in the major leagues in 7 years. They could also be career back-ups. Either way, neither is likely to do much for the 2011 Reds.

    I like Mesoraco's chances at being an All-Star catcher in 5 years. Other teams likely think the same thing. Florida wouldn't think of dealing Josh Johnson/Anibal Sanchez if it weren't for hearing a name like Mesoraco from Walt. This year (and likely for the next couple) the Reds need starting pitching. If we can get an ace to help us for the next few years, and we only have to give up minor league talent, you have to consider it.

    I would hate to deal Mes, but I would love to see the Reds with a legit shot at the Phillies this year.

  5. #5
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    Sure, I wouldn't "want" to trade either, also, but you have to give up value to get value. The Reds' are at a relative surplus of catching. Grandal and Mesoraco could be the two best catchers in the major leagues in 7 years. They could also be career back-ups. Either way, neither is likely to do much for the 2011 Reds.

    I like Mesoraco's chances at being an All-Star catcher in 5 years. Other teams likely think the same thing. Florida wouldn't think of dealing Josh Johnson/Anibal Sanchez if it weren't for hearing a name like Mesoraco from Walt. This year (and likely for the next couple) the Reds need starting pitching. If we can get an ace to help us for the next few years, and we only have to give up minor league talent, you have to consider it.

    I would hate to deal Mes, but I would love to see the Reds with a legit shot at the Phillies this year.
    Big name pitchers change hands constantly and are always available on the open market. Middle-order catchers? Another story entirely.
    Championships Matter.
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  6. #6
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Big name pitchers change hands constantly and are always available on the open market. Middle-order catchers? Another story entirely.
    But how much more value will Mesoraco provide over Hernanigan this year? Likely none.

    How much more value will Mes provide over Hernanigan next year? A little more, but nothing near what an ace would provide over Willis/Wood/Volquez.

  7. #7
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    But how much more value will Mesoraco provide over Hernanigan this year? Likely none.

    How much more value will Mes provide over Hernanigan next year? A little more, but nothing near what an ace would provide over Willis/Wood/Volquez.
    The same Ryan Hanigan that has an OPS of .668 right now?
    Championships Matter.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I wouldn't trade either one.
    Neither would I, and since I wouldn't trade either Cueto or Bailey, I suspect I'd be out of contention, as a GM, for making a big trade now. Furthermore, I'm not interested in acquiring anything in the way of SP unless it's really top-flight and I reject the idea that our window is open only as long as Votto and Phillips are here. In the current condition of baseball parity, this team can be kept very competitive every year as long as the rotation remains so: and to that end, I love the prospect of having good young--read "cheap"--talent filling position spots and thus giving me the flexibility to acquire what I want in the way of SP or other things. (But first of all, SP)

  9. #9
    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    Really good catchers are nearly as valuable as good pitching. I would be very careful to who and for who I traded before either of these guys. You would hate to give up the next great catcher. Another one may not come around for another 30 years.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  10. #10
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    I would trade one of the catching prospects to get a pitcher like U Jimminez.
    An ace pitcher that is affordable for the next 3 years or so. That's pretty much a dream acquision for the Reds.

    The fact that the Rolen/Philips window is closing is all the more reason to pull the trigger on a deal like U Jimminez, if it is available.

    Now, I would not trade one of the catchers for a guy like Guthrie, etc.. Just for a legit ace that would be around for awhile.
    IMO, no one in the minor leagues should be untouchable to get Jimminez.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  11. #11
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    Really good catchers are nearly as valuable as good pitching. I would be very careful to who and for who I traded before either of these guys. You would hate to give up the next great catcher. Another one may not come around for another 30 years.
    Bingo!
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  12. #12
    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    I'd trade Grandal. I wouldn't trade Mesoraco.

  13. #13
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Johnny Cueto, Mike Leake, Homer Bailey, and Aroldis Chapman are all in their low-mid 20's. To say this team's window is closing is kind of silly at this point.

  14. #14
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    I would trade Grandal in a heartbeat as I don't believe he will be that great a catcher as a Major Leaguer. I'm not even sure his bat will play all that well either. So if someone is willing to accept him as a strong piece in a deal for a front line pitcher or bat or even a similar prospect at a position of need I'm in (say like 3rd base). Now of course if the organization strongly believes he could play 3rd or they consider him a strong potential replacement for Votto (assuming they expect Votto to leave via FA) then I'd be much more inclined to keep him.

    Mesoraco I wouldn't deal at all unless it's a guy that is a sure thing (and probably nothing less than a Front line arm) and I'm not sure Ubaldo qualifies for me in that regard, let's say I would be on the fence about dealing him for Ubaldo but not so much so for Felix or Johnson. Ubaldo is a guy i'd deal for in a heartbeat but his mechanics may lead to a quick fadeout and Mes I feel is too strong a prospect to give up for that. Every team has an untouchable guy and other teams seem to be ok with that so I'd make Mes mine. He is the only guy in the system right now I don't believe I'd deal (because I can't see us getting a real chance at guys like Felix).
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    Re: Mesoraco and Grandal as trade bait

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    I would trade Grandal in a heartbeat as I don't believe he will be that great a catcher as a Major Leaguer. I'm not even sure his bat will play all that well either. So if someone is willing to accept him as a strong piece in a deal for a front line pitcher or bat or even a similar prospect at a position of need I'm in (say like 3rd base). Now of course if the organization strongly believes he could play 3rd or they consider him a strong potential replacement for Votto (assuming they expect Votto to leave via FA) then I'd be much more inclined to keep him.
    IMO, you underestimate Grandal greatly.

    He's always had great plate discipline, and some power, and he should hit enough to be a veryt good regular catcher in the majors.

    It's more like Mess will be moved off of catcher.


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