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Thread: Waving the white flag?

  1. #1
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Waving the white flag?

    Two questions.

    First, never mind about general fan perception, how would YOU feel about the Reds waving the white flag this year? They're in 4th place in a weak division. The roster is stocked with young, talented guys. But with youth comes the inconsistency we're seeing now.

    For me, I would be OK with it as long as it came with a plan for getting the younger guys more experience.

    Second, what moves would you want to see if the white flag was waved?

    I would want to see Hernandez traded, Mes up. Renteria DFA'd, and Janish brought up. Rolen to the DL and Frazier brought up. Gomes and Lewis traded or DFA'd and Alonso brought up. Also test the market for Volquez and Cordero. I'm not proposing any specific trades, just the players I'd like to see getting regular time until the end of the year.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

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  3. #2
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    First, never mind about general fan perception, how would YOU feel about the Reds waving the white flag this year? They're in 4th place in a weak division. The roster is stocked with young, talented guys. But with youth comes the inconsistency we're seeing now.
    I feel that would be insanely incompetent GM'ing. The Reds have the best run differential in the central, and are only four games back with over 60 games to play. If the Reds get a few more hits to fall last night, they'd be 2 games out instead of 4. That's how volatile the situation still is. Four games is not a lot.

    Second, what moves would you want to see if the white flag was waved?
    N/A.

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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    I like the moves you suggest. I'd add stretching out Chapman with an eye toward putting him in the 2012 rotation and I'd begin to experiment at closer. Mes I'd bring up only according to his own timetable. Given Alonso and Frazier's time at AAA, I assume they're ready to be brought now. A number of these moves could be made without necessarily this being waving a white flag. I assume, for instance, that inserting Yonder Alonso into the lineup and using Frazier at 3b if Rolen is in need of going on the DL will actually strengthen the club now.

  5. #4
    Lets Go 'Bird' Hunting The Voice of IH's Avatar
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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    Read My Sig.
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  6. #5
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Two questions.

    First, never mind about general fan perception, how would YOU feel about the Reds waving the white flag this year? They're in 4th place in a weak division. The roster is stocked with young, talented guys. But with youth comes the inconsistency we're seeing now.

    For me, I would be OK with it as long as it came with a plan for getting the younger guys more experience.

    Second, what moves would you want to see if the white flag was waved?

    I would want to see Hernandez traded, Mes up. Renteria DFA'd, and Janish brought up. Rolen to the DL and Frazier brought up. Gomes and Lewis traded or DFA'd and Alonso brought up. Also test the market for Volquez and Cordero. I'm not proposing any specific trades, just the players I'd like to see getting regular time until the end of the year.
    Pretty sound decisions if this happened, though I doubt anyone is giving up on this season until well after September starts. Nor should they.

    But if it happened I'd like to see Sappelt playing LF and Mes behind the dish, I'd be cool with seeing Frazier up to but not really interested in the rest much. Oh I'd maybe bring up Boxberger in September.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    At this point the Reds shouldn't stand pat. They aren't good enough to just continue with the current cast. And as I said in another thread, I'd be happy to see Alonso and Sappelt get a chance.

    But we are drawing close to the trade deadline. First thing Reds must do is try to package some prospects and get one or two good veteran players. NOT RENTALS. But the time has come to cash in some of the prospects and make the major league club better.

    After the trade deadline, I agree that the Reds should start bringing up prospects - those not traded - and DFA some of the veterans who aren't working out. In particular, Alonso and Sappelt deserve a shot in the outfield. Gomes and Lewis aren't adding a great deal to the club at this point.

    First thing, though, is July 31. Reds should see what business they can transact by that date.
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-19-2011 at 10:30 AM.

  8. #7
    Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Eric_the_Red's Avatar
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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    If the organization threw in the towel for this season, so would I. No more watching or going to games. If they don't care about their onfield performance this year, why should I?
    2013 Record at games attended: 0-1

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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    The Reds are within a few games of the lead with a lot of baseball left to play. I wouldn't begrudge anyone's decision to tune out early but to me, we're just getting into the most exciting part of the season.

    Throwing in the towel now seems like a bad idea to me.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  10. #9
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    Just a few short years ago Reds fans would be thrilled to only be 4 games out at this point in the season. This team certainly has it's issues but it's baseball and anything can happen.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  11. #10
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    Janish should never play another game for the Reds IMO, cut Renteria, fine, but for the love all god, spare us Janish, he's beyond awful.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Janish should never play another game for the Reds IMO, cut Renteria, fine, but for the love all god, spare us Janish, he's beyond awful.
    I think Janish can be useful next year in a purely backup role--30 starts--behind Reyes at SS and Cozart at 2B.

  13. #12
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Janish should never play another game for the Reds IMO, cut Renteria, fine, but for the love all god, spare us Janish, he's beyond awful.
    I pointed out in another thread that a perfect destination for Janish would be the Rays. If you think Janish is bad, Brignac has had an OPS (yes, you read that right) of .460. Janish would be a significant upgrade for the Rays right now.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  14. #13
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    The reason I wouldn't mind throwing in the towel at this point is this: The Reds, as currently constructed, are not a WS winning team. Maybe they make the playoffs. Maybe. But they would quickly exit stage left. And if you're a team playing for any goal other than winning the WS, then you're doing it wrong.

    That said, I also think the talent on the roster IS capable of going all the way. I'm definitely not of a fire-sale, blow it up and start over mindset. But the kids need more time in the majors to gel. Especially the ones whose roles have been limited, or non-existent to this point. So getting them real experience with at least the chance of picking up steam AND actually making the playoffs would be ideal. Waiting until the Reds are 10 games out would be a total waste.
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  15. #14
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I think Janish can be useful next year in a purely backup role--30 starts--behind Reyes at SS and Cozart at 2B.
    I'll be surprised if he starts 30 games in any season in the majors again.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  16. #15
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Waving the white flag?

    I don't want them, or feel they should throw in the towel. But I just find it puzzling the seemingly lack of desire for the franchise to do anything to address the needs. Yeah, maybe trading for Beltran or Reyes isn't really possible, but it just seems they are not interested in doing anything. It took forever to call up Cozart, and left field continues to be a problem, yet the Reds don't seem interested in seeing how the guys down in AAA can do up here. They really couldn't do much worse, and if anything it would strengthen them for 2012.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.


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