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Thread: College Football Realignment

  1. #151
    The Latin Heartthrob Javy Pornstache's Avatar
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    If the Pac-12 proceeds with just OK and OSU, and the SEC only adds Missouri or West Virginia, and the ACC stops where they are, then there is a viable conference opportunity for the leftovers of the Big East and the Big 12. The remaining Big East teams would formally leave to join the Big 12, add a few of the most attractive teams not in, and the Big East would continue in name as a non-football league, just as it was when it very first started, and how many of the schools have wanted it to be for a while. You'd have a league something like this:

    Kansas
    Kansas State
    Iowa State
    Baylor
    Missouri/West Virginia (whichever one is not SEC #14)
    Cincinnati
    Louisville
    South Florida
    TCU
    with the potential addition of BYU, Houston, ECU, UCF, and maybe Boise State, or possibly Memphis or SMU, to give this league 14 themselves, and likely retaining AQ status.

    However, if Texas and Texas Tech go to the Pac as well, and the ACC adds two more, this would likely kill the viability of the above scenario.

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  3. #152
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    The Big East is dead. Reports are that WVU has submitted their paperwork to the SEC, confirming what their fans have hoped for and the rest of us suspected. I suspect UConn and Rutgers wil soon round out the ACC at 16.

    As for the leftovers, the best case scenario is to merge with the Big XII north schools. UC's best hope is to hitch their wagon to Louisville, wherever that may be.
    This is a very sad day for UC football because it's hard to imagine any scenario where they're going to end up in a BCS level conference going forward. The Big East will likely live on as a non-football conference, probably adding a couple of schools like Xavier and UD, but it's hard to imagine it being able to survive as a football conference - let alone one that merits a BCS automatic-qualifier.

    Assuming that the PAC-whatever adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and WVU, Rutgers and UConn end up in the SEC / ACC, UC is pretty much screwed going forward. The best case scenario would be to merge what's left of the Big XII and Big East and add a couple up-and-coming non-BCS schools.

    West:
    Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor, Houston and TCU

    East:
    UC, Louisville, USF, UCF, Memphis and Missouri (assuming they don't land elsewhere)

    I'm not sure that the quality of football would be significantly worse than the current Big East, but the lack of marque programs and large markets likely means that an automatic BCS automatic-qualifier would be out of the question. The travel situation wouldn't be great, though I'm not sure it's much worse than the pre-Big East raid Conference USA was. Really the only silver lining is that the basketball would still be pretty good.

  4. #153
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    One thing lost in all of this is the inevitable split between the football Big East programs from the non-football, Catholic Big East programs. This is finally the chance for the Big East to become a truly Catholic basketball conference.

    You've got:

    St. John's
    Georgetown
    Seton Hall
    Providence
    Marquette
    Villanova
    DePaul
    Notre Dame (although their future in the Big East is in doubt)

    I'd think they'd look to grab a few teams from the A-10 that fit their mold. Xavier and Dayton are the class of that conference and would likely be the first two. Then you have some combination of: St. Joe's (if Villanova allows for it), Fordham, SLU, La Salle, Duquesne and St. Bonny. That's a darn good basketball conference.
    Last edited by paintmered; 09-18-2011 at 10:11 PM.
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  5. #154
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    I think the fact that everyone with a name is talking 14 and only "sources" are talking 16 is a real sign that nobody wants to go 16 unless somebody else does it first, it'll be a scheduling nightmare.
    I think the Pac-Whatever just did it by going to 16. That's why I've been saying to WVU fans to be patient. They will end up in a conference, just have to wait for the right shoe to drop. I believe the SEC, ACC, and B10 will go to 16, but it won't happen overnight.

    Quote Originally Posted by tixe View Post
    That will make Saturday's LSU @ WVU interesting, particularly with ESPN's Gameday already announcing they're setting up in Morgantown.

    Does this mean that I'm going to have to stop calling the SEC a conference of crooks?
    I kinda alluded to it earlier in this thread, but I am interested to see how WVU fits culturally in the SEC.

    Kentucky (basketball is their pageantry) and the Mississippi schools are kind of the exception to this, but the bluebloods of the SEC (Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, LSU), college gameday is a pageantry of sorts. You will see everything from guys dressed in shirts and ties to girls dressed in sun dresses and hats. This is why I LOVE the Texas A&M move because there is a lot of tradition in College Station.

    The SEC isn't a cheese and wine league (that's the ACC), but there is a certain level of class when it comes to the member schools. This is why I am glad Oliver Luck is the AD coming in instead of Ed Pastilong because Luck has made a serious effort in cleaning up WVU's image. If WVU comes in acting like a bunch of hillbillies with the t-shirts mentioned above, they will quickly become the redheaded stepchild of the SEC, a title that probably goes with Mississippi State right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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  6. #155
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    I think the Pac-Whatever just did it by going to 16.
    But they haven't yet, if the Pac12 can get Texas and Oklahoma without the little sisters of the poor they will, besides the Arizona's, Colorado and Utah will throw a fit if they are going to be put in a defacto big 8 cut off from California except for 1 game every 2 years.
    Go Gators!

  7. #156
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    But they haven't yet, if the Pac12 can get Texas and Oklahoma without the little sisters of the poor they will, besides the Arizona's, Colorado and Utah will throw a fit if they are going to be put in a defacto big 8 cut off from California except for 1 game every 2 years.
    http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_...texas-is-close

    Don't know about Texas, but I have a feeling the Oklahoma legislature will fight to make sure Okie Junior goes with Oklahoma. I remember reading that those two are joined at the hip.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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  8. #157
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    Again, "unnamed source" from could probably find an article from last year with the same thing, until a someone with a name says it I'll remain a skeptic that the whole thing wont fall in again.
    Go Gators!

  9. #158
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    As for the leftovers, the best case scenario is to merge with the Big XII north schools. UC's best hope is to hitch their wagon to Louisville, wherever that may be.
    I don't see a happy ending to this story for UC, USF and Louisville.

    UC's best option in all of this might be to try and carve out a new regional conference for itself out of BE / MAC / B12 / C-USA programs and then immediately file a lawsuit against the BCS or lobby for government action to force some sort of inclusion.

    The reality of UC / Louisville / USF situation is this -- when you look at the level of competition that will exist in the new "Super 4" conferences, there is absolutely no combination of schools that will get a new conference a seat at the BCS table. Conferences need "tentpole" programs, and all the B12/BE merger scenarios lack anything resembling that. Further, these franken-conference suggestions lack any sex appeal for television (especially considering how much money will be committed to the Super 4 deals).

    The best move would be to form a conference that's competitive, and minimizes travel costs -- because the simple truth is that this process will leave the outsiders as functionally D1AA programs. The only way to solve it will be legal or governmental action.

    Thus, my suggested conference -- the MAC12:

    - Cincinnati
    - Louisville
    - Kansas
    - Iowa State
    - Kansas State
    - Mizzou
    - Memphis
    - Marshall
    - Northern Illinois
    - Toledo
    - Ohio University
    - Bowling Green
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  10. #159
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I don't see a happy ending to this story for UC, USF and Louisville.

    UC's best option in all of this might be to try and carve out a new regional conference for itself out of BE / MAC / B12 / C-USA programs and then immediately file a lawsuit against the BCS or lobby for government action to force some sort of inclusion.

    The reality of UC / Louisville / USF situation is this -- when you look at the level of competition that will exist in the new "Super 4" conferences, there is absolutely no combination of schools that will get a new conference a seat at the BCS table. Conferences need "tentpole" programs, and all the B12/BE merger scenarios lack anything resembling that. Further, these franken-conference suggestions lack any sex appeal for television (especially considering how much money will be committed to the Super 4 deals).

    The best move would be to form a conference that's competitive, and minimizes travel costs -- because the simple truth is that this process will leave the outsiders as functionally D1AA programs. The only way to solve it will be legal or governmental action.

    Thus, my suggested conference -- the MAC12:

    - Cincinnati
    - Louisville
    - Kansas
    - Iowa State
    - Kansas State
    - Mizzou
    - Memphis
    - Marshall
    - Northern Illinois
    - Toledo
    - Ohio University
    - Bowling Green
    I give you points for creativity but this won't happen if only due to the pride of all the schools above Memphis in your list.
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  11. #160
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    I give you points for creativity but this won't happen if only due to the pride of all the schools above Memphis in your list.
    Where are they going to go? The SEC ain't taking Iowa State or Kansas, and the Big10 isn't about to come calling for K-State or Mizzou anytime soon either, from what I can gather. Unless they want to go independent, they're going to need to form-up with what's left to try and salvage this mess. Pride is well and good, but eventually that gives way to pragmatism -- they've got football stadiums to fill, and they need teams to play.

    At leas this conference offers some decent hoops (Memphis, UC, Louisville) for Kansas to join up with and it keeps the conference footprint relatively small for travel purposes.
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 09-19-2011 at 12:28 AM.
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  12. #161
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Where are they going to go? The SEC ain't taking Iowa State or Kansas, and the Big10 isn't about to come calling for K-State or Mizzou anytime soon either, from what I can gather. Unless they want to go independent, they're going to need to form-up with what's left to try and salvage this mess. Pride is well and good, but eventually that gives way to pragmatism -- they've got football stadiums to fill, and they need teams to play.

    At leas this conference offers some decent hoops (Memphis, UC, Louisville) for Kansas to join up with and it keeps the conference footprint relatively small for travel purposes.
    I only had a problem with the MAC schools in your list. More likely is a combination of the castoffs plus schools like Houston, Memphis (even though their football program is a total mess), UCF, etc. to round out the conference. Shoot, they might even get BYU and Boise on board (travel would be a mess, as you say). At least it would put butts in the seats to see viable matchups and could fetch a decent media contract. Think C-USA (pre-2003) plus Big 8. Such a conference is far from ideal but there aren't many alternatives for schools that want to stay at the BCS table.

    The schools currently in BCS conferences will not agree to an arrangement with MAC schools. That's where the pride comes in. There's better options in much larger markets. And, rightly or wrongly, they think they're bigger than that, much like how the SEC views the Big East.


    Having said all this, I expect there to be more movement that renders all this invalid in the next 24 hours.
    Last edited by paintmered; 09-19-2011 at 12:41 AM.
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  13. #162
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    I only had a problem with the MAC schools in your list. More likely is a combination of the castoffs plus schools like Houston, Memphis (even though their football program is a total mess), UCF, etc. to round out the conference. Shoot, they might even get BYU and Boise on board (travel would be a mess, as you say). At least it would put butts in the seats to see viable matchups and could fetch a decent media contract. Think C-USA (pre-2003) plus Big 8.

    The schools currently in BCS conferences will not agree to an arrangement with MAC schools. That's where the pride comes in. There's better options in much larger markets. And, rightly or wrongly, they think they're bigger than that, much like how the SEC views the Big East.
    I'm approaching this issue with the following ideas as givens:

    1. There is no combination of unaffiliated schools (schools not in or linked-to the "Super 4" conferences) that can be put together that will be worthy of a seat at the BCS table.

    2. Any "best of the rest" conference will be forced to accept a greatly reduced television package (possibly regional-coverage only, via FSN-type networks) due to increased rights fees for showing "Super 4" programming.

    3. Any "best of the rest" conference will have little to no shot of forming their own cable network to monetize non-revenue sports and/or otherwise non-premium programming.

    Pride will cause a lot of kicking, screaming and desk-overturning for the first 15 minutes of all of this. Then, I assume, reality will set in. A nation-spanning conference will present massive increases in travel costs (especially for non-revenue sports) with relatively little upside (see Given #1 -- no combination of schools, even Boise State and TCU, is good enough to be considered an "equal" with the Super 4).

    Further, by regionalizing, you stand a better shot of selling TV packages since the potential for fan-overlap is so much better (odds of a Kansus alum in Northern Illinois' TV market is much greater than the odds of a Boise State alum there).

    I get that this a bitter pill to swallow -- as a UC football fan, I'm beyond not-happy with all this -- but there's no sense in fighting City Hall on this one. The only way this game will be won is in Congress or a in Courtroom, and if that happens it'll be a win for EVERYONE, not just people who are in a conference with the best leftover teams.
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  14. #163
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    You're right, CE. I know there are some schools that have held their tongue (and their fire) under the current arrangement, but as soon as the new super-conferences move to cut everyone else out of the deal, the lawsuits will fly. Antitrust, breach of contract, the NCAA for not stepping in and doing anything, whatever has a chance to stick.
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Where are they going to go? The SEC ain't taking Iowa State or Kansas, and the Big10 isn't about to come calling for K-State or Mizzou anytime soon either, from what I can gather. Unless they want to go independent, they're going to need to form-up with what's left to try and salvage this mess. Pride is well and good, but eventually that gives way to pragmatism -- they've got football stadiums to fill, and they need teams to play.

    At leas this conference offers some decent hoops (Memphis, UC, Louisville) for Kansas to join up with and it keeps the conference footprint relatively small for travel purposes.
    While the schools you've mentioned are in very bad positions, I just can't envision a scenario they'd be looking to join up with the likes of Ohio University, Toledo or Bowling Green. What do those schools bring to the table? None have been particularly impressive in football or basketball, don't have big alumni bases and don't add to the league's media / recruiting profile. They may be close in proximity to UC and UL, but neither school expressed any interest in being apart of the MAC before they were added to the Big East.

    IMHO a reconstituted pre-Big East CUSA with the BIG XII remnants is a far better bet.

  16. #165
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    Re: College Football Realignment

    My guess is that it's not quite as hopeless for the leftovers as some may think. What I believe you'll have leftover (Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa St., Baylor, TCU, Cincinnati, Louisville, S. Florida and whichever of Missouri/West Virginia doesn't get the SEC slot) is clearly the #5 conference, but still a step up from the Mountain West and the rest. More importantly, the Big 4 would toss it a bone and give it a BCS slot. It's worth it in order to keep the Baylors of the world from launching a flurry of lawsuits and stalling the realignment in court for years. It's still going to open up additional BCS slots for Big 4 teams. The Big 12 and Big East typically would combine for three BCS bids a year. This Big 12/Big East mashup would get one, which gives two additional spots to the Big 4 conferences. It's simply in their best interests to grease the squeaky Baylor wheel and give that conference a bid so that they can grab the two extra bids for themselves.


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