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Thread: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

  1. #1
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    Please.

    We, the fans, the laypeople - the Hoi Polloi - crowed the entire off-season to fix the shortstop and left field situations. They were the team's most obvious needs. Nothing was done. Don't mentio Renteria - he made a bad situation worse. We then crowed for Cozart's call up weeks before it happened. It was the obvious solution, it comes weeks too late, but has worked wonderfully. Most of us knew Drew Stubbs was not a leadoff hitter. We are pitifully underachieving, below .500 and 5 games out as of this morning. Our offense is sputtering and, spare me, those of you who crow about run differential. If you score 743 runs in one game then none over the next 20, you do NOT have a good offense.

    Our pitching has been above average, if not very good. Our bullpen is fine. So these are the moves we are apparently looking to make to fix this team:

    Reds rumored to have interest Ubaldo Jimenez
    Reds rumored to have interest in Jason Isringhausen, Todd Coffey (!!!!), Jason Frasor and other relievers
    Reds rumored to have interest in Chone Figgins and Coco Crisp

    Am I losing my mind? Starting pitching is NOT our problem. Heck, it's been said that no Jimenez deal would take place if Mesorasco was not involved. Relief pitching is NOT our problem. At all. If you add a reliever, even though we don't need it, we'd have to send one of our current ones down or possibly include him in such a deal. A reliable leadoff batter with high OBP IS a need, but we're going to address it by giving up something, a prospect or a current player, for leadoff hitters who have LOWER OBP than the guys we currently use there and one, in Figgins, who is owed a helluva lot of money????

    Can someone please explain to me what the deuce is going on around here? Please?
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  3. #2
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    Sorry to respond to my own thread, but I read now we're also interested in James Shields. He'd cost just as much to acquire as Jimenez. Mesorasco would likely have to be involved in either deal.
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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    Here is why the Reds are going after pitching.

    Team Rank - Runs Scored by Month
    March
    1st MLB & 1st NL

    April
    4th MLB & 2nd NL

    May
    4th MLB & 1st NL

    June
    6th MLB & 2nd NL

    Team Rank - Runs Allowed by Month
    March
    29th MLB & 29th NL

    April
    18th MLB & 11th NL

    May
    30th MLB & 30th NL

    June
    7th MLB & 3rd NL

    This current month the Pitching & Hitting stinks, but you can look back month by month and see the problem is Pitching (es. Starting Pitching).

  5. #4
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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    I agree with you wholeheartedly on the bullpen help - don't get that one at all.

    A potential No. 1 starter of Jimenez or Shields - I could go along with that, especially one that the Reds would have control of for a few years.

    With that said, a bat or two has to be the No. 1 (and really the only) option that this team should be looking for.

  6. #5
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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    Our starting pitching has been pretty bad most of this year so I can see why we're looking. That said, I'd much rather go for a bat behind Votto than I would anything else.

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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    I agree a 4 hole hitter/monster would help this offense, but if you think that the Reds are going to make the playoffs by adding bats than give me some of that Kool-Aid too.

    The Pirates are in first place, because of their pitching. If the Reds would have gotten better pitching they could be in first.

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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    What 4 hole hitter is available that people want to go after? The only possibility is Beltran, but his price is far too steep. Even if the Reds' pitching is turning a corner, it would be great to have a top starting pitcher along with Cueto going into the playoffs. The Giants won the WS last year on the strength of their starting pitching.

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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    David Wright for 3B is ideal. I not sure if he is available.

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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    I think Jocketty knows that we stilll need sp to compete with any of the big boys. Our window is in the next 3 years, so if you can get a sp like Jiminez or Shields you do it, even if we lose Mes or Grandal or Alonso. Hitters can be developed and found via Fa in the off season. I feel a small fire sale coming, Hernandez, Coco (with reds eating some salary), Gomes. If the Reds do aquire Jiminez or Shields, I think you will see one of the sps( probably Bailey gone) along with Alonso and or Mesoraco or Grandal.

  11. #10
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    I have no confidence in this offense. Our starting pitching may not rival Philly's but it's pretty good. We have a veteran innings eater who "keeps you in ballgames" in Arroyo. We have two live young arms in Cueto and Bailey who could be TOR arms for a long, long time (Bailey's durability, of course, is in question). Leake is also a young guy who projects as a very solid 2/3 guy (even though I am admittedly not a huge fan of his). We have a former ace in Willis who is still relatively young and appears to have channeled his former self. We have Travis Wood, who should be a serviceable MOR guy for a long time. Volquez..blech..but there's also Lecure and Maloney, who could be #5 starters for most teams. Jimenez and Shields would, of course, be welcome additions to any rotations in baseball. But it's not our weakness and it's not worth giving up a guy like Mesorasco plus others...no way...and our bullpen is firm. This lineup needs some punch.
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  12. #11
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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    I agree.....hitting IS the problem. The Reds DESPARATELY need either a cleanup hitter or a leadoff hitter (preferably both) at LF, SS, and/or 3B.

    Problem is, I'm just not sure there's much out there to be had. It DOES appear that there are some pitchers that could help the Reds, both this year and beyone. I think it's foolish to say "no I won't improve my pichting because I need hitting help worse". Do you ANYTHING you can to improve your team. If priority 1 isn't there, move to option 2, and so on. If the Reds can pick up a quality starter that will be around for at least a couple of years, then pull the trigger!
    Sto Pro Veritate

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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    Please.

    We, the fans, the laypeople - the Hoi Polloi - crowed the entire off-season to fix the shortstop and left field situations. They were the team's most obvious needs. Nothing was done. Don't mentio Renteria - he made a bad situation worse. We then crowed for Cozart's call up weeks before it happened. It was the obvious solution, it comes weeks too late, but has worked wonderfully. Most of us knew Drew Stubbs was not a leadoff hitter. We are pitifully underachieving, below .500 and 5 games out as of this morning. Our offense is sputtering and, spare me, those of you who crow about run differential. If you score 743 runs in one game then none over the next 20, you do NOT have a good offense.

    Our pitching has been above average, if not very good. Our bullpen is fine. So these are the moves we are apparently looking to make to fix this team:

    Reds rumored to have interest Ubaldo Jimenez
    Reds rumored to have interest in Jason Isringhausen, Todd Coffey (!!!!), Jason Frasor and other relievers
    Reds rumored to have interest in Chone Figgins and Coco Crisp

    Am I losing my mind? Starting pitching is NOT our problem. Heck, it's been said that no Jimenez deal would take place if Mesorasco was not involved. Relief pitching is NOT our problem. At all. If you add a reliever, even though we don't need it, we'd have to send one of our current ones down or possibly include him in such a deal. A reliable leadoff batter with high OBP IS a need, but we're going to address it by giving up something, a prospect or a current player, for leadoff hitters who have LOWER OBP than the guys we currently use there and one, in Figgins, who is owed a helluva lot of money????

    Can someone please explain to me what the deuce is going on around here? Please?
    It's real simple you have senior citizens who are out of touch with today's game running the team. It's that plain and simple. Dusty wants to be friends, not a manager, Walt is living off his "success" in St. louis (btw how is St. Louis doing since he left? maybe it wasn't him) and we are now in the situation we are in..

  14. #13
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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Rover View Post
    Here is why the Reds are going after pitching.

    Team Rank - Runs Scored by Month
    March
    1st MLB & 1st NL

    April
    4th MLB & 2nd NL

    May
    4th MLB & 1st NL

    June
    6th MLB & 2nd NL

    Team Rank - Runs Allowed by Month
    March
    29th MLB & 29th NL

    April
    18th MLB & 11th NL

    May
    30th MLB & 30th NL

    June
    7th MLB & 3rd NL

    This current month the Pitching & Hitting stinks, but you can look back month by month and see the problem is Pitching (es. Starting Pitching).
    We have scored less then 4 runs and loss in something like 23 out of our 48 or 49 losses. Our pitching has struggled but is fine, our hitting is horible, to think adding pitching will turn this team is just wrong. Add all the pitching you want, we will continue to lose many more then we win.

  15. #14
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Girevik View Post
    I agree.....hitting IS the problem. The Reds DESPARATELY need either a cleanup hitter or a leadoff hitter (preferably both) at LF, SS, and/or 3B.

    Problem is, I'm just not sure there's much out there to be had. It DOES appear that there are some pitchers that could help the Reds, both this year and beyone. I think it's foolish to say "no I won't improve my pichting because I need hitting help worse". Do you ANYTHING you can to improve your team. If priority 1 isn't there, move to option 2, and so on. If the Reds can pick up a quality starter that will be around for at least a couple of years, then pull the trigger!
    I'd rather punt this year than sell off our best trading chips (guys who could make this team even better next year, btw - Mes is going to be a ML stud, as I believe will Grandal, Alonso, Boxberger, etc) to gild the lily (our starting pitching and bullpen), so to say. Alonso, Mesorasco, Frazier, Sappelt and guys like Hamilton can help us as soon as next year. A few of them could help this year, for crying out loud. I don't want to sacrifice them for guys like Shields and Jimenez who, albeit good pitchers, are not true aces and it's just not a glaring need right now anyway. We've allowed 3 runs to the division leaders in 2 games and won neither game, nor have we crossed home plate.
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    Re: Ok, Someone PLEASE Help Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    What 4 hole hitter is available that people want to go after? The only possibility is Beltran, but his price is far too steep. Even if the Reds' pitching is turning a corner, it would be great to have a top starting pitcher along with Cueto going into the playoffs. The Giants won the WS last year on the strength of their starting pitching.
    Hunter Pence


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