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Thread: 2011 Bengals Discussion

  1. #781
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I think the lopsided rule is dumb, but that's a NFL union question.

    As another poster pointed out, Carson quit on the fanbase, which is harder to forgive. A player quitting on his team is never a good thing. Some of us are just tired of diva sports players. Maybe I'm old school, but how many players quit on their teams in the 60s or 70s the way that Carson did on the Bengals?

    But moreover, if Carson kept his word and filed his retirement papers, I think you'd hear less people up in arms.
    I agree that the inequality is a union issue. However, Carson isn't playing for the fans. He's playing for himself and his team. He doesn't owe the fans anything. While the fans are responsible for paychecks, nonetheless we should not be so entitled to think the players owe us. We buy tickets and watch because we enjoy it and because we want to... not because they owe us anything.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  3. #782
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    One thing that's been forgotten in this is Mike Brown's hypocrisy in this. People were lauding him for not giving into Carson and expecting him to live up to his contract. How many times did Brown come out and say something about how Carson signed a contract and it was the right thing for him to honor his contract.

    He was claiming to make a stance on principle. But once a really good offer was on the table, expecting Carson to honor his contract all of a sudden wasn't quite so important. In the end, it wasn't about Carson honoring his contract, it was about getting the right offer.
    I don't follow what you're saying. He did not release him from his contract, it was a trade. I kind of look at it like a spouse who wants to leave with no fuss, no muss. I'll take my stuff, you keep your stuff and we'll just have a nice, quiet annulment. Not dissolution, annulment.

    Brown took the stance of "oh no, you will honor this commitment. You can leave, can't stop you there, but you get nothing." Eventually, they agreed to a dissolution. I don't really see that as hypocrisy, but resolving the issue in a way that both parties could agree.
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  4. #783
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I agree that the inequality is a union issue. However, Carson isn't playing for the fans. He's playing for himself and his team. He doesn't owe the fans anything. While the fans are responsible for paychecks, nonetheless we should not be so entitled to think the players owe us. We buy tickets and watch because we enjoy it and because we want to... not because they owe us anything.
    In any business that has customers, the workers have a customer service responsibility and an ethical responsibility to do their job to the best of their ability for the benefit of the customers to make them want to buy the product. No customers, no business. A business that doesn't recognize this is doomed. I would submit that there is evidence that some leaders in professional sports think like you do, that they ARE the business. They always find out that no one is bigger than the business.

    Furthermore, the fans are in no way responsible for paychecks, the owners are. The owner has to pay contracts whether a fan shows up or not. If anyone has no responsibility in this business, it is the fan. They are the true free agents, who have no dependency on anyone and can buy or not buy tickets and merchandise, but have no moral or ethical responsibility to do so.
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  5. #784
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Today is going to be a tough, tough game. Win this game, and I'll be REALLY impressed. The Seahawks aren't a particularly good team, but they've got a really good defense, and they're a different team at home. I think the defense plays well today, but this game lies in the hands of Andy Dalton. How he handles that defense and that atmosphere will determine who wins this game.

  6. #785
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    In any business that has customers, the workers have a customer service responsibility and an ethical responsibility to do their job to the best of their ability for the benefit of the customers to make them want to buy the product. No customers, no business. A business that doesn't recognize this is doomed. I would submit that there is evidence that some leaders in professional sports think like you do, that they ARE the business. They always find out that no one is bigger than the business.

    Furthermore, the fans are in no way responsible for paychecks, the owners are. The owner has to pay contracts whether a fan shows up or not. If anyone has no responsibility in this business, it is the fan. They are the true free agents, who have no dependency on anyone and can buy or not buy tickets and merchandise, but have no moral or ethical responsibility to do so.
    Business owners have no ethical responsibility to customers. If the customer doesn't like the service they're given, they can find it from another (better) business. It's not smart business to give shoddy service, but there's nothing 'unethical' about poor service.

    But you're right... fans aren't responsible for paychecks which was my point exactly: Carson didn't quit on the fans because he wasn't playing for the fans nor should that matter.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    5-2

    Wasn't the prettiest game you'll ever see, but I like it.

  8. #787
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    5-2

    Wasn't the prettiest game you'll ever see, but I like it.
    Its a good thing the Seahawks for some reason started Whitehurst instead of Jackson or this might have been a different game.

  9. #788
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    This is just a wonderfully coached football team. And dare I say, I saw Marvin cracking a smile on the sideline towards the end. You can tell he loves coaching this group. They don't have as much collective talent as Baltimore or Pittsburgh, but they get it done week after week. 5-2 through 7? I'll take that.

  10. #789
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Pretty or not, 5-2 is something I never expected in my wildest dreams after 7 games from this team. They're showing a lot of heart and intangibles. Such a refreshing change of pace.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
    2013 Reds Record when I attend: 5-4
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  11. #790
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Business owners have no ethical responsibility to customers. If the customer doesn't like the service they're given, they can find it from another (better) business. It's not smart business to give shoddy service, but there's nothing 'unethical' about poor service.

    But you're right... fans aren't responsible for paychecks which was my point exactly: Carson didn't quit on the fans because he wasn't playing for the fans nor should that matter.
    Really? So, if I buy a ticket to a game, they can cancel the game and not refund my money? If I buy a seat license and they promise me that it includes a steak and a bottle of wine, they can just shrug and say "sorry, all I have is JTM meat patties and Old Milwaukee beer. I have no ethical responsibility to provide what I promised"? Even winning can be seen as an implied ethical responsibility to do all that one can to put the best product on the field. Try to be cheap and make money while putting an inferior product on the field, and the fans will demonstrate that implied ethical responsibility.

    Again, your view sounds like Mike Brown's view for years and resulted in predictably dismal results. I think he got that there is an implied ethical responsibility here or you will lose your business. So you see some signs of the org. getting it.

    Please do not become an owner of a team that I root for, Brutus.
    Last edited by traderumor; 10-30-2011 at 09:17 PM.
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  12. #791
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    As for the football team on the field, the D may keep them in the playoff hunt all season. This may just be an above average football team.
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  13. #792
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I agree that the inequality is a union issue. However, Carson isn't playing for the fans. He's playing for himself and his team. He doesn't owe the fans anything.
    I agree. He doesn't owe us anything and we don't owe him anything including protecting his reputation. We can slam him all we want especially when we hear Marvin say he quit on the team before the season was over

  14. #793
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I agree. He doesn't owe us anything and we don't owe him anything including protecting his reputation. We can slam him all we want especially when we hear Marvin say he quit on the team before the season was over
    Any team that lets a guy they say quit before the season was over play should also be slammed.

  15. #794
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by CTA513 View Post
    Any team that lets a guy they say quit before the season was over play should also be slammed.
    Gotta admit they didn't have much behind him. I think they had to play him under the circumstances. They can't bench him because of a sutle not being into it by Palmer. But don't worry, the Bengals organization gets slammed regularly. There's no lack of that as they are an easy target

  16. #795
    Joey Votto Fangirl HeatherC1212's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    I honestly wasn't sure what was going to happen this season. I have no clue what's going to happen for the rest of the season. I only know one thing for sure: I really like this team. They may not be THE most talented team in the NFL but they have heart, they don't give up, and they actually want to be here. They're also showing a ton of poise and confidence for a very young team and never seem to be out of a game. They're exciting to watch and win or lose, I find myself caring more this year than I did last year. These things are all pluses in my book so I'm a happy fan. Who Dey!!
    "I tried to play golf, but I found out I wasn't very good." -Joey Votto on his offseason hobby search

    An MLB.com reporter asked what one thing Votto couldn’t do. “I can’t skate or play hockey,” Votto said. “Well, I can skate ... but I can’t stop.”


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