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Thread: 2011 Bengals Discussion

  1. #661
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    There is simply no way anyone can spin this trade as a win for Oakland.

    None.

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  3. #662
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Palmer did what most of us would do if we worked in a place we didn't want to be. He quit. I don't hold that against him at all.
    Most of us didn't ink our name to a contract worth over 100 million dollars.

    Sorry, I loved Carson for a long time. But he got worse and worse. And then, he turned his back on his teammates and all of his fans and quit - when his performance was a huge part of the problem. So he's pretty much dead to me.

    I hate Mike Brown. But I hate an athlete who gives our entire fanbase the middle finger just as much.
    Last edited by The Operator; 10-19-2011 at 01:13 AM.
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  4. #663
    SERP deep cover ops WebScorpion's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    I think Carson will do well in Oakland. He'll play with something to prove and maybe that and the change of scenery will be enough to spark him into being the old Carson again. The Raiders have an offensive line and a running game that will give him plenty of protection and they've got receivers who can stretch the field...if he can still hit them they will go a long way in that weak division. I don't blame CP for trying to screw Mike Brown, but I do blame him for screwing the fans in the process. We're lucky Dalton and AJ Green are working out, this could have easily been WORSE than last season.

    So, even though I think he'll do well, I'm hoping he drags them down so badly that they finish near the bottom of the league. I hope he's still gunshy and doesn't have enough arm left to make the throws. I hope it goes down in history as one of the worst trades ever. Both because it would be well deserved and it would increase the return on those draft picks. Good riddance Mr. Palmer, may you get your just desserts.

    PS - I wonder how many sacks our defense would get if we were to somehow meet them in the playoffs...

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  5. #664
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    I've been 100% behind Palmer the day he said he would retire if not traded. I never felt slighted by him. In my opinion, he didn't quit. He was trying to stick it to the man. I didn't see how this was bad for Bengals fans then. And now, it's turned out better than I could've hoped for.

    The Bengals got rid of an aging average QB. They drafted a young promising QB. They got rid of Brat, 85, and TO. And now, they're getting two top picks. Win, win, win, and win. Great day to be a Bengals fan! Thank you Carson Palmer.
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  6. #665
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    Of course, the caveat is that the Bengals actually do something positive with the draft picks, which, honestly, I'm not confident will happen.
    Rem
    IMHO, the Bengals drafts this century have been fairly decent. They've scored several solid players in rounds 4-7 (TJ Housh, Rudi Johnson, Robert Geathers, Fanene, Kevin Huber, Morgan Trent, Bernard Scott, Geno Atkins plus a few more that have been "decent" for late round picks) They've generally hit on their 1st round picks. Andre Smith took a year too long to develop, but is playing nicely, otherwise, only Keith Rivers stands out as a potential bust (I suppose he's got some time), can't really blame them for the David Pollack situation. 2nd round picks have generally been pretty solid as well, perhaps they should have passed on TO last year (or moved OchoCinco to Washington for the draft picks) as the end of the season, and the start to this one have shown that Jerome Simpson was typical to most WR who don't fully blossom until their 3rd season in the league. Other 2nd round picks the last 10 years have included Chad Johnson, Madieu Williams, Eric Steinbach, Andrew Witworth, Rey Maluaga, Carlos Dunlap and Andy Dalton. Throw in some decent 3rd round picks like Jordan Shiply, Michael Johnson and Pat sims, all since 2008 and its hard to complain about the value they've got there as well. Overall, there have been a couple of stinker drafts, but most were in the early 2000s where no one outside the top pick or 2 made any impact, but I think you can stack up the last decade w/ most teams in the NFL. I doubt they'd come out on top in such an analysis, but they'd be far from the bottom.

  7. #666
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    Most of us didn't ink our name to a contract worth over 100 million dollars.

    Sorry, I loved Carson for a long time. But he got worse and worse. And then, he turned his back on his teammates and all of his fans and quit - when his performance was a huge part of the problem. So he's pretty much dead to me.

    I hate Mike Brown. But I hate an athlete who gives our entire fanbase the middle finger just as much.
    These aren't MLB contracts. They aren't guaranteed.

    NFL teams dump players when they have already "inked contracts" and numerous players hold out every year even soon after "inking contracts".

    He wasn't getting paid while he was holding out, he simply would rather sit out and not get paid then play for the Bengals. IMHO, that says much more about the Bengals than it does about Palmer. He had every right to want to have a different employer, and quite frankly, I find it hilarious that he would rather do nothing than get paid to play a freaking sport. That's how bad he felt his employer was.

  8. #667
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Operator View Post
    Most of us didn't ink our name to a contract worth over 100 million dollars.

    Sorry, I loved Carson for a long time. But he got worse and worse. And then, he turned his back on his teammates and all of his fans and quit - when his performance was a huge part of the problem. So he's pretty much dead to me.

    I hate Mike Brown. But I hate an athlete who gives our entire fanbase the middle finger just as much.
    Well put, even though I don't think Carson would mean to take it out on the fans (although when they throw trash on your lawn, I guess I probably would).

    Cincinnati is a blue collar city. You don't take your ball and go home and not expect harsh treatment.
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  9. #668
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    These aren't MLB contracts. They aren't guaranteed.

    NFL teams dump players when they have already "inked contracts" and numerous players hold out every year even soon after "inking contracts".

    He wasn't getting paid while he was holding out, he simply would rather sit out and not get paid then play for the Bengals. IMHO, that says much more about the Bengals than it does about Palmer. He had every right to want to have a different employer, and quite frankly, I find it hilarious that he would rather do nothing than get paid to play a freaking sport. That's how bad he felt his employer was.
    He felt sooooo bad about his employer he went ahead and signed a huge contract extension to stay with this terrible employer.
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  10. #669
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Lots of folks in the league (other owners) secretly didin't want Brown to make a Palmer deal. The other owners felt that Palmer quitting and getting what he wanted would set bad precedence for this in the future. However the possibility of 2 first round picks was too much for Brown to pass up.
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  11. #670
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    These aren't MLB contracts. They aren't guaranteed.
    That's a problem they should take up in CBA negotiations. They know full well when signing a contract that they can be dropped, and at the same time they can also be held to it in its entirety. If they don't like that they should have the union force a change. But as of now, them's the rules. Carson knew it when he signed the contract. I don't care that he got buyer's remorse.



    He wasn't getting paid while he was holding out, he simply would rather sit out and not get paid then play for the Bengals. IMHO, that says much more about the Bengals than it does about Palmer. He had every right to want to have a different employer, and quite frankly, I find it hilarious that he would rather do nothing than get paid to play a freaking sport. That's how bad he felt his employer was.
    If he was anything even remotely resembling an elite QB in the last few years, I might agree with you. But his performance bordered on pathetic. And for him to have the nerve to quit on his teammates and take his ball and go home - when his crappy play had a lot to do with the team's problems - is just a bit much for me.

    I realize that Carson's antics actually ended up helping The Bengals in the long run. But that doesn't mean I'm going to commend him for being a quitter. I might mockingly thank him for making The Bengals a better team by not being a part of it, but that's about as far as I'll go.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
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  12. #671
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohayou View Post
    Pick 1 - Cliff Harris, CB, Oregon
    Pick 2 - David DeCastro, G, Stanford

    It's POSSIBLE Richardson could fall to us, but I doubt it. If he doesn't, I'd wait until the 2nd round to draft a RB. MJD, McCoy, Forte, Rice, Tate - all 2nd rounders.
    Every mock I've seen so far has Cliff Harris as a second rounder. One mock I read had the Bengals taking Harris in the second and a first round CB from South Carolina who's name escapes me at the moment.

    Would anybody rule out the Bengals taking Janoris Jenkins in the first round? That seems like a good way to kick the gift horse in the mouth.
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    The Raiders current situation is far from a good one. If you're looking at recent success the Bengals have been much better than the Raiders. Al Davis has passed away and the decision making in their FO is a huge question mark. They have traded away so many draft picks in the next couple of years so you wonder how they can build onto what they have. When was the last time they won the AFC West? I know they went to a Superbowl in 02 or something like that, but since then they've been terrible.

    If Carson didn't like the situation here and accepts the situation there it makes you wonder.

    But still, I get that some fans agree with what he did. I think that says more about Mike Brown than it does Carson though. If he didn't like it here he shouldn't have signed the contract extension...Mike was the owner when he signed it and Marvin was the coach when he signed it. He quit on his teammates and the Bengals fans, that is kinda an unforgivable thing for me as a fan.

  14. #673
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    He felt sooooo bad about his employer he went ahead and signed a huge contract extension to stay with this terrible employer.
    Again, it's largely not guaranteed.
    Either party is allowed to get out when they want to.

  15. #674
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    There is simply no way anyone can spin this trade as a win for Oakland.

    None.
    Unless Carson leads them to the Super Bowl and they are a championship contender for 3-4 years to come under him and the Bengals draft picks from OAK are flops.

    But, yes, this is a win for the Bengals. Call it luck or stubborness or skill but Mike Brown comes out smelling like a rose here. I'm not a Bengals fan but living here I keep track of what's going on. If Brown traded Carson when everyone wanted him to, he wouldn't have got near as much as OAK gave him. I was with the majority of people who thought Brown should have traded Carson earlier than what he did. Perhaps Brown knew that a QB or two would go down and Carson would be in greater demand than he was in April. Continually insisting that Carson would not be traded probably helped drive the price up as well. People want what they can't have. I don't know if Al Davis would have made this trade if he were alive. But it doesn't matter since the deal was made. The Bengals may screw up those picks but it seems they have drafted well in the past few years.

    As for Carson, he got what he wanted. Good for him. Now he has to show that he was worth those two draft picks and the large salary. What is going to happen when Campbell comes back? Will Carson be the QB he was 5-6 years ago or the QB he was last year? Odds are on the latter. He's on the wrong side of 30 and had major knee surgery. He's also had shoulder problems and the injuries don't get better when you get older. On the other hand, he's in a division that is far easier than the one the Bengals are in. He's in a place he wants to be playing for a coach he is familiar with who wanted him and liked working with in the past. So we'll see how it plays out but right now it's a solid win for the Bengals.
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Mike Brown is his own devil and I don't think anybody here would dispute that, but when I think of the old adage "Nobody Likes a Quitter", I think of Carson Palmer. When he does come back to PBS (either this season in the playoffs or next regular season), he will see just how bad and unforgiving Cincinnati fans can be.

    SOP isn't an angel, but Palmer isn't a saint either. The only fortunate thing for Carson was that he had enough money to retire on that some of us on here can only dream about. Could anybody here imagine what would happen if we did a similar situation to Carson in real life?

    As was mentioned though, Palmer accomplished more by quitting. The Bengals have a young QB who unlike Palmer can manage an offense, an innovative offensive coordinator, cutting loose a primadonna wide receiver, and potentially two first round picks (one guaratneed).
    The fact that people still go to Bengals games and pay Mike Brown money is astounding. The fact that there's a thread here discussing the Bengals and there are fans shows how brilliant of a man Mike Brown is.


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