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Thread: 2011 Bengals Discussion

  1. #796
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Business owners have no ethical responsibility to customers. If the customer doesn't like the service they're given, they can find it from another (better) business. It's not smart business to give shoddy service, but there's nothing 'unethical' about poor service.

    But you're right... fans aren't responsible for paychecks which was my point exactly: Carson didn't quit on the fans because he wasn't playing for the fans nor should that matter.
    You're kidding right? Lack of ethics and sound business practices are what got the Banking Industry in the predicament it now finds itself.

    The fans are the sole reason for the NFL's existence. Without fans, the NFL would stand for "No Freakin' League." Owners would probably be in some other line of business and players would be playing weekend pickup games at the local field. When you take someone's money, you have both an ethical and a contractual obligation to give them your best effort to provide the service you offer. Anything less is theft. Believe me, I deal with it in my line of work all the time. Granted, players won't often get arrested for theft for failing to put forth their best efforts in a game, just because it's hard to prove without hard evidence that they took actions to intentionally throw a game. But the concept is still the same. If I buy a ticket to the game, I have every right to expect that the players are putting forth their best efforts. If I find out later that a player wasn't doing so, then I have every right to complain because he already got my money. Carson Palmer owes his career to people that buy tickets, just as every other professional athlete does.
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  3. #797
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    You're kidding right? Lack of ethics and sound business practices are what got the Banking Industry in the predicament it now finds itself.

    The fans are the sole reason for the NFL's existence. Without fans, the NFL would stand for "No Freakin' League." Owners would probably be in some other line of business and players would be playing weekend pickup games at the local field. When you take someone's money, you have both an ethical and a contractual obligation to give them your best effort to provide the service you offer. Anything less is theft. Believe me, I deal with it in my line of work all the time. Granted, players won't often get arrested for theft for failing to put forth their best efforts in a game, just because it's hard to prove without hard evidence that they took actions to intentionally throw a game. But the concept is still the same. If I buy a ticket to the game, I have every right to expect that the players are putting forth their best efforts. If I find out later that a player wasn't doing so, then I have every right to complain because he already got my money. Carson Palmer owes his career to people that buy tickets, just as every other professional athlete does.
    What does ethics by banks have to do with making customers happy?
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  4. #798
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Really? So, if I buy a ticket to a game, they can cancel the game and not refund my money? If I buy a seat license and they promise me that it includes a steak and a bottle of wine, they can just shrug and say "sorry, all I have is JTM meat patties and Old Milwaukee beer. I have no ethical responsibility to provide what I promised"? Even winning can be seen as an implied ethical responsibility to do all that one can to put the best product on the field. Try to be cheap and make money while putting an inferior product on the field, and the fans will demonstrate that implied ethical responsibility.

    Again, your view sounds like Mike Brown's view for years and resulted in predictably dismal results. I think he got that there is an implied ethical responsibility here or you will lose your business. So you see some signs of the org. getting it.

    Please do not become an owner of a team that I root for, Brutus.
    You are really conflating this issue badly.

    I said a business has no ethical obligation to make sure you're satisfied. That's not the same as giving you what you paid for (i.e. a ticket).

    If you buy a seat, they are ethically obliged to be sure you get the seat. They are not, however, ethically obliged to make sure you enjoy yourself.

    Here was your exactly quote:

    In any business that has customers, the workers have a customer service responsibility and an ethical responsibility to do their job to the best of their ability for the benefit of the customers to make them want to buy the product.
    They have no ethical responsibility to "make them want to buy the product."

    All they have is a responsibility to provide the product that is purchased. If you don't like the quality of the product, then you can take your business elsewhere and they will suffer. But they have no obligation, ethically, to provide a quality product.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  5. #799
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    As for the football team on the field, the D may keep them in the playoff hunt all season. This may just be an above average football team.
    At the beginning of the season I thought this team was going to have a W-L better than many had predicted. I didn't think it would say much about the team, more so about the schedule. We all saw how the schedule set up, they got two of the weakest conferences (NFC West and AFC South) as well as two 4th place teams in the AFC. The schedule also set up nicely giving them time to gel and develop with a weak first half. That said I never expect Dalton and Green to be at this point in their careers right now. Both are better than I could have hoped for.

    Their D and special teams are among the best in the league. I tend to think that when Nuggent hit that 48 yard FG to put the Bengals up 8 is pretty much sealed the deal. After that the defense pinned their ears back and made plays. Dunlap the big sack, Tate the punt return for TD, then Nelson the TD at the end. I think the D is good enough to keep the Bengals in the playoff hunt all season long. Even the Ravens have some serious holes on their offense. The Steelers will spell trouble with they play them.

    I think the Bengals are an above average football team trending in the right direction.

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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    To be honest, the rest of the season is house money to a certain extent.

    This team is young and talented. And they have a boat load of draft picks coming in the next few years. What's really refreshing is that the defense in particular isn't built around any one guy. This means that 1)If someone signs elsewhere it's not a crushing loss and 2) There isn't a single position group which can't be upgraded if a star quality player becomes available.


    Pittsburgh and Baltimore are among the older defenses in the league. So this year may not be the one for the Bengals, but there's obviously a pretty bright future.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  7. #801
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    You are really conflating this issue badly.

    I said a business has no ethical obligation to make sure you're satisfied. That's not the same as giving you what you paid for (i.e. a ticket).

    If you buy a seat, they are ethically obliged to be sure you get the seat. They are not, however, ethically obliged to make sure you enjoy yourself.

    Here was your exactly quote:



    They have no ethical responsibility to "make them want to buy the product."

    All they have is a responsibility to provide the product that is purchased. If you don't like the quality of the product, then you can take your business elsewhere and they will suffer. But they have no obligation, ethically, to provide a quality product.
    The comment I responded to, which I won't quote here but let you go back and look at the record, stated that the organization had no ethical responsibility to its fans. If you are clarifying, then say you are clarifying, but you were absolute: "no ethical responsibility," now it is "to provide a quality product?" That is a distinction that you were not making in the post I responded to.
    Can't win with 'em

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  8. #802
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC1212 View Post
    I honestly wasn't sure what was going to happen this season. I have no clue what's going to happen for the rest of the season. I only know one thing for sure: I really like this team. They may not be THE most talented team in the NFL but they have heart, they don't give up, and they actually want to be here. They're also showing a ton of poise and confidence for a very young team and never seem to be out of a game. They're exciting to watch and win or lose, I find myself caring more this year than I did last year. These things are all pluses in my book so I'm a happy fan. Who Dey!!
    One of the things that's changing from past years is that their starting QB is going to show up for Bengalsline tonight. WLW confirmed this morning that Carson never ever was a Monday Bengalsline guest

  9. #803
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    The comment I responded to, which I won't quote here but let you go back and look at the record, stated that the organization had no ethical responsibility to its fans. If you are clarifying, then say you are clarifying, but you were absolute: "no ethical responsibility," now it is "to provide a quality product?" That is a distinction that you were not making in the post I responded to.
    Well I apologize if that wasn't clear. I thought it followed that I was responding to the idea that they don't owe customer satisfaction to the fans. Certainly they owe what it is being advertised as being paid for. In this thread, however, the tone has been about making the fans happy... not being cheated out of their seats, tickets, etc., so I didn't see where that would be an issue.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #804
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    I love how so many 'experts' are trying to discredit what we've done this year. They went from saying we were the worst team in the NFL to now saying our 5-2 doesn't mean anything because we've had an easy schedule. Those two just don't add up.

    Looking at the schedule Arizona, St. Louis, and Cleveland are now must win games, that would get us to 8. Say we keep it rolling in Tennessee this weekend and we'd be one tough win away from potentially posting 10 wins and sitting comfortably in the playoff race. I know it's still too early to look ahead, but it's definitely doable. Especially with how Marvin and Zimmer can gameplan against the Ravens.

  11. #805
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Rick Reilly said we'd be 0-16 this season.

    I sent him an email reminding him of this prediction.

    Needless to say, he hasn't responded to said email.

  12. #806
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    Rick Reilly said we'd be 0-16 this season.

    I sent him an email reminding him of this prediction.

    Needless to say, he hasn't responded to said email.
    I'd wait until we're in the playoffs and flood his mailbox.
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  13. #807
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I agree that the inequality is a union issue. However, Carson isn't playing for the fans. He's playing for himself and his team. He doesn't owe the fans anything. While the fans are responsible for paychecks, nonetheless we should not be so entitled to think the players owe us. We buy tickets and watch because we enjoy it and because we want to... not because they owe us anything.
    The union doesn't have that power unfortunately, so Palmer should've honored his contract, plain and simple. If the union did have that power, your point would have more merit.

  14. #808
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    Please. Carson did not quit the fan base. He quit Mike Brown and I don't blame him one bit. I'm a lifelong Bengals fan and have applauded Carson Palmer from Day 1 since he told Mikey Boy to shove it. I haven't felt slighted at all with him leaving.
    Well good for you. Blaming Mike Brown's history of bad decisions doesn't make Carson Palmer's decision to quit on his team and the fans a good one, I'm sorry to inform you.

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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Well good for you. Blaming Mike Brown's history of bad decisions doesn't make Carson Palmer's decision to quit on his team and the fans a good one, I'm sorry to inform you.
    It sure is nice to see a Bengals player with some set of principles.

  16. #810
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Blaming Mike Brown's history of bad decisions doesn't make Carson Palmer's decision to quit on his team and the fans a good one, I'm sorry to inform you.
    You're right, it turns out Carson Palmer's decision wasn't a good decision. It was a great one for everyone involved.

    A little recap of what has happened to the Bengals since Palmer decided he was done with them:

    1) Brat is gone
    2) 85 and TO are gone
    3) Draft Andy Dalton
    4) Don't have to play an aging, less than average QB
    5) Receive 2 very high draft picks

    Those are just 5 of the positives and most have happened because Carson Palmer decided to leave. This decision by Palmer is going to help this teams for quite a few years and will go down as one of the best things to ever happen to this team. Thank you Carson!
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

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