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Thread: 2011 Bengals Discussion

  1. #811
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    You're right, it turns out Carson Palmer's decision wasn't a good decision. It was a great one for everyone involved.

    A little recap of what has happened to the Bengals since Palmer decided he was done with them:

    1) Brat is gone
    2) 85 and TO are gone
    3) Draft Andy Dalton
    4) Don't have to play an aging, less than average QB
    5) Receive 2 very high draft picks

    Those are just 5 of the positives and most have happened because Carson Palmer decided to leave. This decision by Palmer is going to help this teams for quite a few years and will go down as one of the best things to ever happen to this team. Thank you Carson!
    While it may be true it doesn't change the fact that Palmer quit on everyone. In fact I am gonna go a step further that I never thought I'd say but I am not so sure he ever fully embraced the concept of being a Bengal in the 1st place. He's a West Coast person to the core, one who always seemed to keep the midwest and it's people at arms length. But in the end he got what he wanted most and that was his pockets filled. Well played loser, well played!
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  3. #812
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    I am not so sure he ever fully embraced the concept of being a Bengal in the 1st place. He's a West Coast person to the core, one who always seemed to keep the midwest and it's people at arms length.
    Well, if there wasn't for this thing called a Draft, you wouldn't have had to suffer him.
    Not all who wander are lost

  4. #813
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    You're right, it turns out Carson Palmer's decision wasn't a good decision. It was a great one for everyone involved.

    A little recap of what has happened to the Bengals since Palmer decided he was done with them:

    1) Brat is gone
    2) 85 and TO are gone
    3) Draft Andy Dalton
    4) Don't have to play an aging, less than average QB
    5) Receive 2 very high draft picks

    Those are just 5 of the positives and most have happened because Carson Palmer decided to leave. This decision by Palmer is going to help this teams for quite a few years and will go down as one of the best things to ever happen to this team. Thank you Carson!
    #1 I think Brat was gone when Marvin resigned. I think that it was a sticking point in the negotiations that Marvin get more control of coaches. I don't think Brat getting fired had anything to do with Carson Palmer.

    #2 TO was a foregone conclusion that he would not return. Then the knee injury and TO wasn't going to be a Bengal this season. I also don't know how much Carson had to do with Chad's departure. I think it was pretty evident he wasn't the dynamic WR anymore and you couldn't put up with his antics.

    #3 May have been the most important one here. The Bengals weren't going to move on to a different QB with Carson still playing. Its pretty much league wide that teams hold onto franchise QB's longer than they should. I was getting disappointed that the Bengals didn't look in the 2nd or 3rd rounds for a replacement for Carson has his play deteriorated. Heck I thought they should have taken a stab at Colt McCoy in the prior draft.

    #4 Yep

    #5 Yep

    I am glad Carson went out the way he did. But I still think he quit on the team.

  5. #814
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    You're right, it turns out Carson Palmer's decision wasn't a good decision. It was a great one for everyone involved.

    A little recap of what has happened to the Bengals since Palmer decided he was done with them:

    1) Brat is gone
    2) 85 and TO are gone
    3) Draft Andy Dalton
    4) Don't have to play an aging, less than average QB
    5) Receive 2 very high draft picks

    Those are just 5 of the positives and most have happened because Carson Palmer decided to leave. This decision by Palmer is going to help this teams for quite a few years and will go down as one of the best things to ever happen to this team. Thank you Carson!
    I am glad it worked out for everyone involved, but it doesn't change the fact that Carson did quite on the fans and his team.

  6. #815
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    #1 I think Brat was gone when Marvin resigned. I think that it was a sticking point in the negotiations that Marvin get more control of coaches. I don't think Brat getting fired had anything to do with Carson Palmer.
    If that's the case then why did they announce at that somber presser in mid January that there would be no coaching changes? It was weeks later that Brat was canned. I got the impression that MB did that kicking and screaming after seeing folks balk at renewing their tickets

  7. #816
    Member medford's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    I never blamed Carson for taking his retire or trade me stance. It was the only leverage he had, if he's been smart he's got enough money in the bank to last forever. The franchise has been in horrible shape for the last 2 decades plus, save a few seasons when Carson was on top of his game, he had little reason to think son of Paul would go out and do the things needed to right the ship. I have my doubts that he ever quited on the team from an in game perspective, however it wouldn't surprise me much if half way thru last season a 4 hour film study on a Tuesday afternoon in season's prior may have turned into a 1 hour film study. Carson was officially beat down by losing ways of the franchise. Carson was part of the problem, at least the last couple of seasons, but I doubt the ego of the average athlete would allow him to see that as clearly as many outside of the organization saw it.

    In the end, as I view things now, I think Carson did a huge favor to the organization. Carson just wasn't the same QB he's been in past seasons, since he Kimo the Assassin snapped his knee in two. If Mike Brown is nothing else, he's extremely loyal. I have little doubt, had Carson decided he wanted to play out his contract, the Bengals would have held on to him for the next 3 seasons, hoping to catch a little bit of that past glory. Instead they were forced to look at the future and landed Andy Dalton on top of the homerun they hit with AJ Green at the top of 1. Landing 2 top draft picks for Carson in the future, along w/ their own top draft picks enables the franchise to move into contender if they have similar success in the draft the next couple of seasons as they've had in the last couple.

    I was listening to Colin Cowherd the other day. I typically can't stand him, but he said something that clicked with me. He was talking to an NFL scout that had passed along the wisdom that you need a QB willing to stand in the pocket and wait the extra half a second to deliver the ball, even if it means they'll get hit. I forget which QB of today Colin was talking about that didn't have that quality and it played a huge roll in why he struggles, but he went on to mention how Dalton has it, Big Ben, Peyton, Brady, etc... all have it (named about 8 different QBs, some young like Dalton, some experienced like those above). he continued to mention it as a big reason why Jimmy Clauson never worked as well as a few other guys.

    I don't know about the other guys, but when I think of Carson post the playoff game, he clearly showed the lack of willingness to stand in that extra second and deliver the big pass. The arm injuried didn't help, but its why I question if he'll work in Oakland.

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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I am glad it worked out for everyone involved, but it doesn't change the fact that Carson did quite on the fans and his team.
    Carson Palmer has no obligation to you as a fan? Quitting on the players is an argument that can be made. But what does he owe you?

  9. #818
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    Carson Palmer has no obligation to you as a fan? Quitting on the players is an argument that can be made. But what does he owe you?
    To give it all he's got every time he steps on the field. It's like saying a Broadway actor has no obligation to theater goers who paid hundreds, maybe thousands for a ticket, only to the other actors.

    I really, really don't get this line of reasoning about employees not having an obligation to patrons of a business. Has American ethics, poisoned by the rugged individualism philosophy, slipped that far that some folks actually believe that nonsense?

    The buzzword is "stakeholders," and in the business of professional sports, fans certainly are stakeholders as they invest their time, buy tickets and merchandise, and/or are employed by the team. Or maybe they have a complimentary business that benefits from the success of the professional sports franchise.

    But then, those who don't see employees having an obligation to fans must be in customer service, because that seems to be the mindset of businesses toward their customers in this culture. The new American way.
    Last edited by traderumor; 11-01-2011 at 06:52 PM.
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  10. #819
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    Carson Palmer has no obligation to you as a fan? Quitting on the players is an argument that can be made. But what does he owe you?
    If I buy a ticket to the game, he owes me his best effort to try and win the game. If he wants to fake it, then maybe he should go into pro wrestling. There he can just follow the script, because because everyone knows pro wrestling is fake. I don't watch the NFL to see lollygaggers go through the motions.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  11. #820
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    Rick Reilly said we'd be 0-16 this season.

    I sent him an email reminding him of this prediction.

    Needless to say, he hasn't responded to said email.
    Will this column make you happy?

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  12. #821
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    This such a silly conversation. What indication do we have that Carson didn't give his best effort in the games he played? The last game as a Bengal was one of his best.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  13. #822
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    This such a silly conversation. What indication do we have that Carson didn't give his best effort in the games he played? The last game as a Bengal was one of his best.
    Quitting under contract is not playing his best, don't you think?

  14. #823
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Quitting under contract is not playing his best, don't you think?
    I'm disappointed Mike Brown cut Laverneous Coles before his contract was up.

  15. #824
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    It's surprising how many people still want to stick up for Carson. I don't know if he quit last season, but if he didn't he's really not that good anymore. It doesn't matter to me either way because he said he would rather sit on his butt than play here. I don't think Cincinnati is the best city in America or anything, but I have enough pride to take offense to that. The Bengals haven't been nearly as bad as people make them out to be in recent years, so from that point of view I don't get it either (especially since he went to the Raiders who have also been pretty bad recently).

    I could understand it more if it were a player like Brandon Phillips...a guy that has been actively involved with this city's fans. Someone fans felt like they knew on a more personal level and cared about. When did Carson ever go out of his way to show that he cared about us? Heck, Dalton did Bengals line the other night and they mentioned how Carson never did it once. Carson was a big part of the problem last year, and instead of manning up to try to and get better he took his ball and went home.

    What makes the NFL more exciting than MLB is that every year you can have a turnaround. No team is out of it before the season starts. Part of that is their salary cap, another part of it is teams don't get buried with horrible contracts. Owners/GMs having the freedom to cut these guys is keeping a better product on the field and maintaining competitive balance. Something neither baseball or the NBA can say.

    Like someone said way earlier in this thread, looking at NFL contracts you have to just look at the guaranteed up front money. More often than not if you under perform you will not see out that contract, and if you over perform you will negotiate a new deal before it ever ends (except for Matt Forte who for some reason is still not being paid what he's worth).

  16. #825
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    Re: 2011 Bengals Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Quitting under contract is not playing his best, don't you think?
    No, I think there's a large difference. What happens off the field is no one's business but Carson and the team. Once he decides he's going to play, then he needs to give it his all in practice, in games, etc...

    But if for whatever reason he decides he can't do that, then he's under no obligation(ethical or otherwise) to come in and work where he is unhappy.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski


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