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Thread: Has Dusty cost us this season?

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    Member Redlegs's Avatar
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    Has Dusty cost us this season?

    Listening to Kevin Goldstein from Baseball Perspectives on Ken Broo's show this morning talk about how Dusty really does not like starting rookies or one year guys over veteran players.

    Just wondering if this line of thinking has ultimately cost the Reds their season. Yonder Alonso continues to sit the bench which makes me wonder why in the world he was brought up from Louisville. It took them forever to call up Cozart when it looks like he's clearly the best option at the shortstop position. If Mesoraco is ready, why not get him up here and put him behind the dish?

    I usually don't doubt the manager. I know Dusty Baker knows more about the game than I ever will. Just can't help but wonder why our young talent is not afforded the opportunity to play sooner than what they are.
    As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

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    Member Redlegs's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    Maybe I should have titled this thread, "Has Walt cost us this season?". After all, he pulls the trigger on the roster moves. And he's the one who would ultimately allow Dusty's stubborness and reluctance to play the young guys eventually rule the day.
    As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

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    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    FWIW, Broo had Erardi on before Goldstein, and Erardi wondered aloud if Dusty and Walt are on the same page.

    Ken Broo has the finest radio sports show in this city, hands down. He does a great job, and is far better on radio than he is on TV, where he is limited to the usual sounds bites.

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    While the NYM series was possibly the final nail in the coffin for 2011, I have to think the Milwaukee series (before the break) was devastating.

    Cordero and Baker's decision to continually send him out there killed this team going forward.

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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
    Listening to Kevin Goldstein from Baseball Perspectives on Ken Broo's show this morning talk about how Dusty really does not like starting rookies or one year guys over veteran players.

    Just wondering if this line of thinking has ultimately cost the Reds their season. Yonder Alonso continues to sit the bench which makes me wonder why in the world he was brought up from Louisville. It took them forever to call up Cozart when it looks like he's clearly the best option at the shortstop position. If Mesoraco is ready, why not get him up here and put him behind the dish?

    I usually don't doubt the manager. I know Dusty Baker knows more about the game than I ever will. Just can't help but wonder why our young talent is not afforded the opportunity to play sooner than what they are.
    Well nearly everyone around here has been clamoring for Heisey to start in LF. It is finally happening. Not trying to call you out or anything but I just find it funny that Dusty is finally starting Heisey after he got ripped for quite a while for not starting Heisey, and now he is getting knocked on for starting Heisey and not starting Yonder.

    Dusty can't play the guys if they are in the minors. And calling guys up are not his decisions. I am sure he has some say in them, but ultimately that comes down to Walt.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    I'd blame the players, they are the ones who have generally underperformed.

    You could have re-arranged the deck chairs on the Titantic, but most people still got wet.

    For whatever reason, lots of players haven't performed to their expected level. Add in a healthy does of bad luck, and you have our season.

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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    I'd blame the players, they are the ones who have generally underperformed.

    You could have re-arranged the deck chairs on the Titantic, but most people still got wet.

    For whatever reason, lots of players haven't performed to their expected level. Add in a healthy does of bad luck, and you have our season.
    Couldn't agree more.

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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Well nearly everyone around here has been clamoring for Heisey to start in LF. It is finally happening. Not trying to call you out or anything but I just find it funny that Dusty is finally starting Heisey after he got ripped for quite a while for not starting Heisey, and now he is getting knocked on for starting Heisey and not starting Yonder.

    Dusty can't play the guys if they are in the minors. And calling guys up are not his decisions. I am sure he has some say in them, but ultimately that comes down to Walt.
    I know where you're coming from, but Fred Lewis is also playing quite a bit. Alonso's a number one draft pick. I've seen him bat twice and both times he's ripped the ball. He's also made a nice play in LF. Time to trot him out there.
    As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

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    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    Heard this from a long-standing ESPN employee back in 2008 who is close with Dusty. He said verbatim what you just said you heard on the podcast; that Dusty had more or less admitted he had his reasons for it.

    That said, I do not just blame Dusty; although I think it's been one of his worst managerial jobs of his career. I blame a lot of the players. It's never been just one thing, it's always some aspect of the game that has been lacking and kept us from playing consistent baseball and Dusty has not been able to get them to respond. I also want to hear Walt's reasoning for not throwing this team some type of life-raft. Anything, something. I mean, how has he earned his paycheck?
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
    2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
    2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-0

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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
    I know where you're coming from, but Fred Lewis is also playing quite a bit. Alonso's a number one draft pick. I've seen him bat twice and both times he's ripped the ball. He's also made a nice play in LF. Time to trot him out there.
    You mean the Fred Lewis with this line since the AS game?

    .261/.414/.435/.849

    He (much like Dusty) is not the blame for any of the Reds major maladies.

    The reason for the Reds failings stand on the bump in the middle of the infield, where 10 guys have started a game for the team and 7 of them have an era above 4.68.

    In short they stink, not the manager.

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    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
    I know where you're coming from, but Fred Lewis is also playing quite a bit. Alonso's a number one draft pick. I've seen him bat twice and both times he's ripped the ball. He's also made a nice play in LF. Time to trot him out there.
    Didn't Walt reason that YA was brought up bc he earned the promotion and it was time to see what he could do? Perhaps that time is post deadline.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    If it's the GM's fault for lack of talent on the roster and the player's fault if there is talent and they under perform, when is it the manager's fault?

    Never?

    And if so, why are managers ever fired?

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    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    If it's the GM's fault for lack of talent on the roster and the player's fault if there is talent and they under perform, when is it the manager's fault?

    Never?

    And if so, why are managers ever fired?
    Cause they are figureheads. Too much credit for the wins, too much blame for the losses.

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    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    You mean the Fred Lewis with this line since the AS game?

    .261/.414/.435/.849
    That's the one. Same guy who was hitting well before the YA call up as well. Why not give him the LF job against RH in the leadoff spot? And why bring up Alonso in light of Lewis' play and considering he would probably ride the pine?

    I do blame Dusty for his handling of LF this year. It's been a continual revolving door.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

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    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Has Dusty cost us this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
    I know where you're coming from, but Fred Lewis is also playing quite a bit. Alonso's a number one draft pick. I've seen him bat twice and both times he's ripped the ball. He's also made a nice play in LF. Time to trot him out there.
    I agree. Actually, giving Heisey playing time is defensible, so it's hard to knock him too hard for this. But no way Lewis should be getting playing time over Yonder. Look at it this way, Lewis is NOT going to get better. He is more likely to decline. Yonder is a rookie and a player the team as invested a lot of money in, so time to let him start seeing major league pitching.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.


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